Earlier quoted context omitted.
North South is exactly opposite of what you need, the sun is never north
what if you're in the southern hemisphere?
Genuinely didn't even consider this XD
The future of solar doesn't track the sun
41–50 of 154 posts
Re: The future of solar doesn't track the sun
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah - you can’t talk about renewable energy generation without also considering when it is generated. Then future price of energy will be incredibly time dependent. Finding a way to generate at a different time than everyone else - whether by east/west panels or time shifting with batteries or building a different kind of renewable generation is where all the big profits will be.
Demand isn't fixed in time either, though. Industrial processes that presently run at night to use cheap power will switch to daytime when it makes sense to do so. Summer mid-day also has the highest electricity demand all year in many places due to air conditioning, so arguably solar is addressing one of the biggest stress points.
Not an expert, but my understanding is that the challenge there is that a big cost in industrial production is the initial capital outlay for the equipment, and oftentimes to pay that back reasonably, you need to run the equipment nonstop. Also, some processes are challenging to stop/start.
Re: The future of solar doesn't track the sun
#43The article fees disingenuous, flat panels collect the maximum sunlight from a given area of land and require fewer panels than the arrangement shown. Angling them helps the rain wash them and reduces the amount of mounting brackets unless you’re laying panels flat on the ground. Similarly total KW over the day isn’t why tracking mounts are so common instead it’s the increased value of electricity in the mornings and…
everything is addressed in that article.
actually this is "bad kind of article", because there is so much information in there / "everything covered". that it is almost impossible to have comments about it lol.
Re: The future of solar doesn't track the sun
#44Looking at the graphs, the tracking arrays may have the added benefit of generating power in the mornings and evenings. If everyone builds non-tracking arrays, power during peak will become almost worthless if solar is a big part of overall generation capacity, so the economics might change even with panels being cheap. Of course, just building 2x as many permanently tilted panels might also work. Edit: the article a…
but, 70% of MY! yearly households electricity consumption is literally into [PV!] hot water. Hot water tank is cheapest energy storage device on planet. and i do not have to worry to shower in noon, i can just charge my water tank during day, even when im not home. and use hot water in evening. for very little price - no need to use heat pump, resistive heater is super cheap. hot water tank can be made even DIY to lo…
I didn't read your entire comment (sorry), but wanted to support your water tank statement.
I live in an area with frequent, often day long power failures during winter storms. So my house is designed around that.
When I bought a new hot water tank, I spent a little extra for the super insulated one. The result?
I can take a shower during a power failure, and still another not as hot 24 hrs later! When you consider that the first shower injected cold water into the tank, that's fairly impressive.
On long power failures, on the third morning I can even take a lukewarm shower, with no cold water at the shower (I have individual hot/cold controls). This is far preferable to a shower at 5C water temp (from my well in winter)
And where did any eacaped heat go? Why... into my house! Surely not a loss.
So yes, water tanks rock.
Re: The future of solar doesn't track the sun
#45When panels are cheap what about vertical mounting? Less susceptible to hail and snow. And maybe placed north-south, to maximize production in morning and evening when it's needed most.
(not sarcasm)
Yes ! Triple price of PV panels to buy "ceramic glass print" PV panel with eye pleasing pattern / stealthy photo on it and you can have facade or fence made from PV panels, there is drop in generated power from 10-50 % depended on pattern, color used.
Price per panel not price per install ! ! ! And subtract need to buy materials used for that purpose before.
Re: The future of solar doesn't track the sun
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Anti-hail netting is definitely a thing (protecting cars or fruit trees), for the reasons you state. Even big hailstones are rather slower than fast golf balls.
Hail damage at car dealerships in my area is so expensive that the dealers have added coverings for the lots (pretty sure highly encouraged by the insurance companies), and they are most definitely not nets. Nets would have been cheaper, so that should say something about their effectiveness (or not)
Ascetically, nets get dirty and are hard to clean, have birds on them, things grow on them, and they look gaudy to some.
Re: The future of solar doesn't track the sun
#47Looking at the graphs, the tracking arrays may have the added benefit of generating power in the mornings and evenings. If everyone builds non-tracking arrays, power during peak will become almost worthless if solar is a big part of overall generation capacity, so the economics might change even with panels being cheap. Of course, just building 2x as many permanently tilted panels might also work. Edit: the article a…
> If everyone builds non-tracking arrays, power during peak will become almost worthless if solar is a big part of overall generation capacity
During peak solar yesterday in California wholesale power was $5-6/MWh (The CA grid is routinely over 100% renewables during springtime. The excess is handled by having a lot of batteries, exporting energy, and curtailments.
Re: The future of solar doesn't track the sun
#48The article fees disingenuous, flat panels collect the maximum sunlight from a given area of land and require fewer panels than the arrangement shown. Angling them helps the rain wash them and reduces the amount of mounting brackets unless you’re laying panels flat on the ground. Similarly total KW over the day isn’t why tracking mounts are so common instead it’s the increased value of electricity in the mornings and…
everything is addressed in that article. actually this is "bad kind of article", because there is so much information in there / "everything covered". that it is almost impossible to have comments about it lol.
It’s really not.
Literally laying them flat on minimally cleared land would win the simulation. Fewer panels, fewer acres, less mounting hardware, less labor, more power. Real world conditions not included in the analysis, such as wholesale electricity prices over a day and land not being flat, drives a lot of these choices.
Re: The future of solar doesn't track the sun
#49Compelling analysis. But if hail damage is the primary concern, tracking seems like an X/Y solution. What about eg anti hail netting that can be rolled out when the weather forecast predicts hail? It seems to me like a middle ground might be automated deployment of hail protection, which by definition has lower aero loading than what amounts to a big semiconductor sail.
anti-hail netting? you must not be from somewhere that receives a lot of hail. hail punches through solid coverings at the right size. if it's not the right size, then it's not that damaging. netting? ha! thanks for the funny visual so early in the morning.
Hail punches through solid coverings because they are rigid. They nearly instantaneously stop the hail which means they absorb all of the kinetic energy of the hail very quickly. They don't have a good way to dissipate that energy as rapidly and it goes into breaking the structure of the covering.
Nets are flexible. The energy of the collision goes into accelerating the net at the point of the collision. The net can quickly spread that energy into accelerating the surrounding areas of the net and so on. Unlike with a rigid cover this is not nearly instantaneous, so you don't have all the kinetic energy of the hail being poured into the net at once. That and the ability of the net to rapidly spread energy means that you don't get enough energy anywhere to break the net. It just stretches as it decelerates the hail.
You can see how this works by watching a soccer game and observing how the nets at the goals stop balls. Hailstones that weigh more than a soccer ball are extremely rare, as are hailstones that are falling faster than many strikes and penalty kicks in a professional soccer game, and you don't see many soccer balls breaking through the net.
People have calculated how fast a soccer ball would have to go to get through the net and found that it is over 220 mph. The largest recorded hailstone is estimated to have had a terminal velocity of 168 mph, based on size, mass, and atmospheric conditions. That hailstone had about 16% more kinetic energy than a 220 mph soccer ball and so might have broke the net, but soccer nets are by no means the strongest nets that can made. And remember that was the largest hailstone ever recorded--we are talking a once in decades event.
Re: The future of solar doesn't track the sun
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
but, 70% of MY! yearly households electricity consumption is literally into [PV!] hot water. Hot water tank is cheapest energy storage device on planet. and i do not have to worry to shower in noon, i can just charge my water tank during day, even when im not home. and use hot water in evening. for very little price - no need to use heat pump, resistive heater is super cheap. hot water tank can be made even DIY to lo…
I didn't read your entire comment (sorry), but wanted to support your water tank statement. I live in an area with frequent, often day long power failures during winter storms. So my house is designed around that. When I bought a new hot water tank, I spent a little extra for the super insulated one. The result? I can take a shower during a power failure, and still another not as hot 24 hrs later! When you consider t…
Yeah, similarly with insulation / good building practices, my house can lose power in coldest of days and i do not have to put on hoodie for 2 days. (not heating by other means like wood, which i do not have) it is not big house tho. it is insane to me that in country where there are tornadoes, hurricanes, wildfires hundreds of times per year, we do not do this / build like this by default.
In europe, there is possibility to be on "energy spot prices", essentially utility will charge you energy market prices. today price at noon was almost zero. last Sunday, prices were negative - they literally pay you to draw from grid. but at evening, price can be quite high.
so having simple time relay / or more complex minicomputer directly reading energy market prices and switching loads can even earn you some money. it is not money making business but overall price can drop significantly. it is also an economic incentive to buy battery storage and actually got to paid it off.
Enabling citizens to do good thing is underrated.
people with "standard" contract are essentially subsidizing industry, corporations which have cheaper electricity because of bundling with residential customers. which makes weird and complicated incentive structures. essentially anti-market behavior in country which boasts itself in "capitalistic" structures... and slowing adoption of renewables, because it looks like they are more expensive than they actually are.