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Native visionOS platform support

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Re: Native visionOS platform support

#41

Post by skeptrune »

azinman2 wrote: post #38
skeptrune wrote: post #32

Insane that Apple put this PR up without at all contributing to the development fund. Didn't even put up an issue first haha.

If they did the work, what’s wrong with that?

Maintainers have to review the PR, answer Apple's "Open Questions", and support their users who want to build with the new functionality long term.

Laughably, it looks like the PR didn't even compile...[1]

> When you try and bundle, it will fail. The library paths are incorrect.

[1]: https://github.com/godotengine/godot/pull/105628#pullrequest...

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#42

Post by klausa »

andsoitis wrote: post #27

Godot already supports VR via OpenXR. OpenXR is the Khronos-maintained industry standard for VR/AR devices—supported by SteamVR, Oculus, Vive, Pico, Windows Mixed Reality, Quest. Notably absent is visionOS / Vision Pro. I would insist Apple conforms to the industry standard. More scalable, open.

This would get you, maybe, VR/AR games/apps running on the device.

The PR from Apple also adds support for "flat" Godot games/apps running on Vision Pro.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#43

Post by eksu »

skeptrune wrote: post #36
andsoitis wrote: post #27

Godot already supports VR via OpenXR. OpenXR is the Khronos-maintained industry standard for VR/AR devices—supported by SteamVR, Oculus, Vive, Pico, Windows Mixed Reality, Quest. Notably absent is visionOS / Vision Pro. I would insist Apple conforms to the industry standard. More scalable, open.

> The visionOS platform doesn't have OpenGL support, as it's not supported by visionOS. Hell would freeze over before Apple conformed and contributed to an existing open standard. They even failed to follow the Godot contribution guide for the PR itself.

OpenGL is quite dated for VR/AR. In the Apple ecosystem they supported OpenGL 4.1 for quite some time before moving to Metal, which was announced 2 years before Vulkan.

If you spent the time developing an in house graphics API since open standards weren’t moving forward, why would you rewrite everything a second time just a few years later? Shouldn’t you expect to get a decade or two out of your existing API and only do the massive rewrite when the benefits become more substantial?

Vulkan & OpenGL applications can translate to Metal with MoltenGL and MoltenVK, respectively.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#44

Post by klausa »

andsoitis wrote: post #22
dewey wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Niche platform from one of the biggest companies on the planet isn’t as niche as others though. If there’s a way to get first party support from the vendor directly it could be beneficial to the other platforms too (iOS).

> it could be beneficial to the other platforms too (iOS). In what way? As far as I know, iOS support on Godot is almost entirely community-driven. If true, Godot has nothing to gain. Apple is struggling with adoption so they have most to gain from Godot support for visionOS, but is not obvious that visionOS support would benefit Godot in any strategic manner. One strategic heuristic is that you don’t want to underta…

>As far as I know, iOS support on Godot is almost entirely community-driven.

Yes, and now it has gotten to the point where it clearly has been noticed by Apple; and they're eager to contribute back to it too.

Is that not... the ideal scenario here? You have community contribute a port for a big platform, the company notices, and starts contributing too.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#45

Post by klausa »

ugh123 wrote: post #23
saagarjha wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guy it's not even merged yet

Godot is open source. I'm sure, at least internally, Apple has tested these changes on one or more 'demo' apps. Any of which could be released as public demos.

Yes, Apple is a company that is famously known for publicly releasing demos and proofs of concepts; especially around games.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#48

Post by andsoitis »

KeplerBoy wrote: post #37
andsoitis wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple TV for games is super niche, with very little market share in the big scheme of things. Even when it comes to TV, Apple realized they had to create an Apple TV+ app for other platforms to extend the reach of their investment in shows/movies beyond their own hardware.

There are however some games which thrive on apple tv. The virtual cycling game zwift is probably one of the most important apple tv games, it's the recommended system to get the game running on the cheap. So, if you're making an app that benefits from a big screen and your customers are willing to buy a cheap dedicated device to easily use your app on a big screen, supporting apple tv might be a very sensible choice…

> if you're making an app that benefits from a big screen and your customers are willing to buy a cheap dedicated device to easily use your app on a big screen, supporting apple tv might be a very sensible choice.

Compared to other HDMI-connected devices (e.g. Google Streamer fka ChromeCast, Amazon FireTV, Roku) or major TV platforms like Android TV or Samsung and LG, the market share that Apple TV commands is dwarfed. Apple TV devices are also very expensive.

A startup like Zwift that bets on Apple TV as a key GTM strategy is making an error in judgment. Apple TV is extreme long tail footprint.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#49

Post by giantrobot »

ugh123 wrote: post #23
saagarjha wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guy it's not even merged yet

Godot is open source. I'm sure, at least internally, Apple has tested these changes on one or more 'demo' apps. Any of which could be released as public demos.

If only had some sort of developer conference coming up in a little over a month. A conference where they release a bunch of demo and example projects. Well it's too bad no such thing exists.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#50

Post by andsoitis »

klausa wrote: post #44
andsoitis wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it could be beneficial to the other platforms too (iOS). In what way? As far as I know, iOS support on Godot is almost entirely community-driven. If true, Godot has nothing to gain. Apple is struggling with adoption so they have most to gain from Godot support for visionOS, but is not obvious that visionOS support would benefit Godot in any strategic manner. One strategic heuristic is that you don’t want to underta…

>As far as I know, iOS support on Godot is almost entirely community-driven. Yes, and now it has gotten to the point where it clearly has been noticed by Apple; and they're eager to contribute back to it too. Is that not... the ideal scenario here? You have community contribute a port for a big platform, the company notices, and starts contributing too.

> Apple; and they're eager to contribute back to it too.

To think Apple is interested in the success of Godot would be a mistake. It might feel like a compliment, but it would be a trap because Apple’s interest stems from increasing the chances of visionOS success and will be happy to externalize the ongoing maintenance tax to Godot.

Unless Godot feels they need visionOS then it isn’t in their interest to entertain Apple’s PR. If anything they should respond saying they already support standard interface in the form of OpenXR.

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