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Major breakthroughs in UK munitions production

baesystems.com

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Re: Major breakthroughs in UK munitions production

#41

Post by benterix »

zabzonk wrote: post #38
benterix wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What a wonderful world we live in. This is proper reaction to Russia attacking Ukraine, not helping Ukraine to defend itself.

do you think that the russians an ukrainians, and just about everyone else, are not not manufacturing this shit in increasing volume? do you think this is good?

What counts is if the populations are willing to engage in conflict or not; manufacturing is secondary. We have been stockpiling various weapons and decommissioning them for decades without them being used, that's a good thing. But when you convince a population that attacking another country is good, the amount of weapons is secondary as there will always be a way to get more of them.

So a lot depends on who will ascend the Russian throne once Putin dies. If he is a warmonger, he will continue feeding the public with the "we need to kill the Nazi" rhetoric and continue killing Ukrainians. The weaker Ukraine is, the more likely this scenario is to become.

Re: Major breakthroughs in UK munitions production

#42

Post by readthenotes1 »

sleepyguy wrote: post #25
zmgsabst wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is due to being unable to meet the artillery demands of the Ukraine war. NATO has been badly out produced by Russia — and drained its collective stockpiles to dangerous levels. - - - - Articles pretending that this was invented in a few months due to Trump are silly — and commit a fallacy so common it has a name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc

https://ukranews.com/en/news/1077392-bae-systems-preparing-t... >comes against the backdrop of the refusal of British and European defense companies to purchase American equipment. This is due to fears that President Donald Trump has turned the USA into an unreliable partner. This was just one of the many articles. You can do a quick search and the theme is decouple from the USA.

Starting in 2022, when they decided to start doing the work?

Doubtful.

More likely, copycat lazy journalism.

Re: Major breakthroughs in UK munitions production

#43

Post by readthenotes1 »

roenxi wrote: post #14
sleepyguy wrote: post #5

Innovation brought on by the fact they want to rid themselves of dependence on the USA. All around the world more and more countries and industry are looking for ways to decouple from American dependence.

Trump: "Spend more making yourselves more military independent". Europe: "Screw you! We'll show you! We're going to spend more money on becoming militarily independent!" The man has an inhuman power to influence narratives.

The spending started in 2022. Trump was quiet and something else happened that year

Re: Major breakthroughs in UK munitions production

#44

Post by sleepyguy »

monero-xmr wrote: post #11
sleepyguy wrote: post #5

Innovation brought on by the fact they want to rid themselves of dependence on the USA. All around the world more and more countries and industry are looking for ways to decouple from American dependence.

As an American, this is a good thing. I don't want a world where Europe / UK are vassals to the hegemon. A European happy to live under America's boot rather than own their own destiny is a weak person indeed.

I don't think there is a country in the world that doesn't understand it will never be able to depend on the USA for security or trade. It s not just that they elected Trump because we know that is temporary but the fact that they could elect another someone like Trump is a persistent threat.

As an American I encourage every country to decouple, and as I understand every country is working on it. Mark Carney of Canada said it best, it will never be the same, ever no matter what the future is because trust that has lasted 90 years has been broken. Canada will never have the same relationship with the USA.

Re: Major breakthroughs in UK munitions production

#45

Post by [deleted] »

prennert wrote: post #37
sleepyguy wrote: post #5

Innovation brought on by the fact they want to rid themselves of dependence on the USA. All around the world more and more countries and industry are looking for ways to decouple from American dependence.

> These developments follow more than £150m of investment by the Company in its UK munitions facilities since 2022 The sustained need for artillery shells since 2022 did not arise because more countries wanted to decouple from American dependence, but because a war was started that did not allow for the typical NATO doctrine of air superiority to be used. I wonder when so many artillery shells were last used as they…

[deleted]

Re: Major breakthroughs in UK munitions production

#46

Post by tim333 »

prennert wrote: post #37
sleepyguy wrote: post #5

Innovation brought on by the fact they want to rid themselves of dependence on the USA. All around the world more and more countries and industry are looking for ways to decouple from American dependence.

> These developments follow more than £150m of investment by the Company in its UK munitions facilities since 2022 The sustained need for artillery shells since 2022 did not arise because more countries wanted to decouple from American dependence, but because a war was started that did not allow for the typical NATO doctrine of air superiority to be used. I wonder when so many artillery shells were last used as they…

I guess the last time was Vietnam or Korea? Artillery seemed a bit dated. In Ukraine is seems less important now than it was in 2022 as much of the killing is now done with drones or missiles.

Re: Major breakthroughs in UK munitions production

#47

Post by mrguyorama »

looofooo0 wrote: post #13
zabzonk wrote: post #2

[flagged]

Don't worry about this, it is even worse. 75% of all casualties Russian military doctors see stem from drones. (In major wars before it was artillery leading this list.) So investing into artillery shells is a bit like investing in cavalry 120 years ago..

Ukraine uses drones primarily because they cannot produce artillery shells and the countries supplying artillery shells all planned on not needing artillery because a B52 does the whole "remove this grid square" job quite well.

But then Trump, so....

Russia has been using plenty of artillery, like, entirely too much shitty artillery in fact. It's just as effective as it used to be.

Drones meanwhile are only effective right now because they haven't experienced a full cycle of arms race yet. Nobody has found the right "defense" for it. Automated cannons will likely nerf drone's effectiveness in a superpower conflict, and any attempt to harden a cheap drone to survive combat just drives it closer and closer in functionality and cost to an actual missile.

Basically this is like saying a navy is no longer a useful resource because of a war taking place on dry land.

Re: Major breakthroughs in UK munitions production

#48

Post by monero-xmr »

Incipient wrote: post #34
monero-xmr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, this is a good thing. I don't want a world where Europe / UK are vassals to the hegemon. A European happy to live under America's boot rather than own their own destiny is a weak person indeed.

Other than the recent clown the US has elected, does the EU really feel like a "vassal"? Do people toil against their will, yield their culture to another power? In Australia we're even more so a "vassal" of England, but we're as Aussie as Aussie can be. Life wouldn't change a zack if we separated from the UK...we'd just be a Republic I suppose? I can't imagine the EU should feel particularly different? (other than U…

If you are invaded by China and won’t fight to the death, expecting America or someone else to save you, or would just roll over and take it, you are a vassal mentally. If some country invaded America I would fight to the death

Re: Major breakthroughs in UK munitions production

#49

Post by Incipient »

monero-xmr wrote: post #48
Incipient wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than the recent clown the US has elected, does the EU really feel like a "vassal"? Do people toil against their will, yield their culture to another power? In Australia we're even more so a "vassal" of England, but we're as Aussie as Aussie can be. Life wouldn't change a zack if we separated from the UK...we'd just be a Republic I suppose? I can't imagine the EU should feel particularly different? (other than U…

If you are invaded by China and won’t fight to the death, expecting America or someone else to save you, or would just roll over and take it, you are a vassal mentally. If some country invaded America I would fight to the death

If China invaded the vast majority of countries (eg populations I don't think relying on your allies makes you a vassal.
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