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Don't force your kids to do math

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Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#41
post #8

It's not about forcing your kids to "do math", but to excel at important skills far before the benefits of being good at that skill matter. The amount of homework/study per day that maximizes math scores on tests is significant, 1+ hours/school day by the time they're in middle school, with it helping even more for those who are starting out poor at math[0]. You'll note the referenced study doesn't even max out progr…

Me being forced to do tons of horrible math by my abusive grandfather at a young age for literally 4+ hours at a time gave me a few things. 1. A true hatred of work, make work, and a strong desire to defend laziness as a concept (note that Bertrand Russel agrees hard with me here!) - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Praise_of_Idleness_and_Ot... 2. A love of subversives and cheating the system. Basically, the guys w…

[deleted]

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#42
post #15

Another article where someone thinks being a parent means they understand all children. I have 4 kids, and 2 of them definitely would never do math, even basic math, for fun, ever. Their brains lack whatever pathways most people utilize to learn math, so I now have a 15 year old who has to work nearly as hard at arithmetic as she did when she first learned it. No amount of drilling, change of curriculum, buckling dow…

Best advice I ever received is: You have to parent the kid you have - not the kid you want

I have 5 and can say that this is the way.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#43
I tell my kid that math is a language. You learn to speak it, just like you learn to speak any other language, slowly, by listening, understanding, speaking, intuitively recognizing patterns, rules and exceptions. When you start to become fluent you translate problems into math and solve them. At school they keep trying to make them memorize useful phrases, like a tourist that goes to Paris and learns how to say "where's the bathroom", "hello", "would you like to sleep with me", "thank you", "goodbye", etc.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#44
Forcing is kind of hopeless. So is logic, and reasoning.

How children learn (rely on the prefrontal cortex of their adults) is very different than how adults learn (no fully developed prefrontal cortex until 25-26), learning about this can help a lot.

Learning more about the Reggio Emelia approach might help parents curious about this, it has been quite surprising how much is possible naturally. One of the best things to do is to relentlessly read to and with your kids.

Also, linking a topic to their interest's radar, encouraging curiosity, play in general, and letting them potentially discover it can go a long away.

When they've got something they want, teaching math and savings is a great thing. Understanding life is a lot harder without knowing a basic bit of math, and can be made a bit easier when doing it younger.

I had a math teacher that once made it clear, some stuff can just click, others is just about doing a lot of examples to learn the patterns. Doing math is very different than being creative with being comfortable to find it.

Today, I'd probably setup a good prompt to find a way for the child to share their mine to discover how they like to learn, and how they might like to learn faster and easier by taking some shortcuts through math directly or on navigating an ontology/taxonomy perspective.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#45
Forcing is kind of hopeless. So is logic, and reasoning.

How children learn (they can't rely on a fully formed prefrontal cortex like adults) is very different than how adults learn (no fully developed prefrontal cortex until 25-26), learning about this can help a lot.

Learning more about the Reggio Emelia approach might help parents curious about this, it has been quite surprising how much is possible naturally. One of the best things to do is to relentlessly read to and with your kids.

Showing kids the math in every day things, especially things they already love is a helpful way of making it approachable, or at least aware.

Also, linking a topic to their interest's radar, encouraging curiosity, play in general, and letting them potentially discover it can go a long away.

When they've got something they want, teaching math and savings is a great thing. Understanding life is a lot harder without knowing a basic bit of math, and can be made a bit easier when doing it younger.

I had a math teacher that once made it clear, some stuff can just click, others is just about doing a lot of examples to learn the patterns. Doing math is very different than being creative with being comfortable to find it.

Today, I'd probably setup a good prompt to find a way for the child to share their mine to discover how they like to learn, and how they might like to learn faster and easier by taking some shortcuts through math directly or on navigating an ontology/taxonomy perspective.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#46

Something we don't pay enough attention to is that while calculators have solved everyday math to the point we downplay it as a required skill, people are not pulling out their calculator at the grocery store to make better purchase decisions, even though we all have one in our pocket now. So we handwave the importance of being able to do everyday math in our heads, while also not taking advantage of the tool that's…

Learning to get to a best price per unit is a pretty useful skill that could make a lot of difference for a lot of future adults, just like financial literacy.

Some things aren't optional, and if they are seen as such, it's going to force the child to learn later in life what they couldn't earlier on.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#47
post #15

Another article where someone thinks being a parent means they understand all children. I have 4 kids, and 2 of them definitely would never do math, even basic math, for fun, ever. Their brains lack whatever pathways most people utilize to learn math, so I now have a 15 year old who has to work nearly as hard at arithmetic as she did when she first learned it. No amount of drilling, change of curriculum, buckling dow…

Have you come across https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Teenage_Liberation_Handboo... I read it (as a non-child), and a lot of my certainties about what young brains are and are not capable of got joyfully exploded. I'm not linking it to you proscriptively, or with a specific suggestion or riposte in mind whatsoever - you just might be interested in it. School is very successful at convincing kids (and former kids) of…

> School is very successful at convincing kids (and former kids) of two things:

Well, and thirdly, that your worth as a person is determined by your results in graded examinations, and by extension, your salary or some other numerical rating decided by someone else.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#48
post #8

It's not about forcing your kids to "do math", but to excel at important skills far before the benefits of being good at that skill matter. The amount of homework/study per day that maximizes math scores on tests is significant, 1+ hours/school day by the time they're in middle school, with it helping even more for those who are starting out poor at math[0]. You'll note the referenced study doesn't even max out progr…

Me being forced to do tons of horrible math by my abusive grandfather at a young age for literally 4+ hours at a time gave me a few things. 1. A true hatred of work, make work, and a strong desire to defend laziness as a concept (note that Bertrand Russel agrees hard with me here!) - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Praise_of_Idleness_and_Ot... 2. A love of subversives and cheating the system. Basically, the guys w…

Your experience sounds awful but surely there is a reasonable middle ground between forcing a kid to do any math and forcing them to do it in 4+ hour sessions.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#49

30 minutes of play per 3 days is such a brutal reality to acknowledge. One of the most wonderful experiences in all of life so drastically limited by the society we’ve constructed.

> One of the most wonderful experiences in all of life so drastically limited by the society we’ve constructed.

I could understand if someone was forced to work two full-time jobs (as my grandfather was), but I find it much harder to blame ‘society’ when so many of these situations are self-imposed.

It’s possible that I’m jaded from hearing a subset of parents complain about not having enough time with their kids but then get stuck scrolling their phone while kids want to play. I also know some parents who insist on having a spotlessly clean house every day and then complain that there is enough time to spend with their kids.

I’ve gravitated toward peer parents who have similar priorities in life which has indirectly made me happier. Seeing all of the parents in my friend circles prioritize spending time with their kids and being honest with themselves about their priorities has been unexpectedly helpful for my own sanity.

Again, nothing against parents who are really forced to allocate time elsewhere, but I’m tired of seeing self-inflicted problems of prioritization and time management be externalized as blaming society.

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