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An image of the Australian desert illuminates satellite pollution

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Re: An image of the Australian desert illuminates satellite pollution

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starlink and similar do not have the capacity for true global internet access. They are suitable only for their current, niche markets e.g. rural areas. If you truly want global internet access fibre is the best option.

How do you get fiber to the top of a mountain or the middle of the ocean?

Most people don't live on the top of a mountain or on boats.

So in that case a small satellite constellation is fine.

Re: An image of the Australian desert illuminates satellite pollution

#42
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't tell if you're joking or not, but SpaceX has indeed been collaborating with astronomical observatories to reduce the apparent magnitude (brightness) to ground for Starlink satellites. It's not as if the potential issues weren't apparent and reported on pretty early on, ie, [0] in summer 2020 before the network entered beta. It's not perfect and the period during orbit raising before the satellites enter operati…

> Can't tell if you're joking or not Not. Often obvious simple solutions are overlooked. For example, NASA spent huge sums of money trying to design a gas gauge that will work in weightless conditions. Until an engineer suggested just having a "reserve" tank that has enough to bring the spacecraft out of orbit. Another one was NASA spend a lot of money trying to figure out how to not have the Apollo capsule overheat…

>Not. Often obvious simple solutions are overlooked.

I'm not sure I'd say "often" has something like what you offered up been overlooked by SpaceX. We're long, long past the early eras when everything was first getting figured out, and the timescales and costs are totally different. Talking of "obvious", painting something black in orbit has clear enormous thermal implications, and there are aspects of the system that seem necessarily reflective as well (solar panels, optical links and so on) and in turn mitigation requires cascading design decisions. These aren't platinum plated Apollo era programs either. Like, gut check here: do you see ANY space stations or satellites in space, at all, where they "just painted them black"? I don't think it's actually trivial at all.

Anyway main point is yes, it's recognized and yes, it's getting worked on (successfully!), and I hope that will ultimately help pave the road for any other future megaconstellation efforts by showing what's possible.

Re: An image of the Australian desert illuminates satellite pollution

#43
post #10

You know those airplanes with a banner at the beach? I can imagine a constellation of satellites writing ads (live) in space using mirrors and other nifty tech. Unless regulation stops it.

> Unless regulation stops it.

Or a ground-based megawatt IR laser with steerable optics.

Re: An image of the Australian desert illuminates satellite pollution

#44
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more unpopular opinion: it's highly debatable that internet access increases the quality of life for most people.

This is very easy to say sitting in a developed country where your access to information has never been in question. There are still millions if not billions that don't have access to the rest of humanity's knowledge.

I've been thinking about it for a while; and that's exactly the thing I've been questioning for some time. I'm not as convinced as I was that more knowledge equals a better life. I reflect back on how much time I've spent on countless hours of useless YouTube binges. I've wasted so much time on the internet that could have been spent on things that would have made me happier.

Re: An image of the Australian desert illuminates satellite pollution

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps there is more to be gained from terrestrial astronomy than pretty pictures?

Such as?

Much of our current understanding of physics is rooted in astronomical observation.

Many planets and asteroids have been discovered by amateurs using telescopes and the visible light spectrum, even in the modern era.

More directly practicable, astronomy has given us an understanding of space weather and solar ejections which are fairly critical to things like grid stability and minimizing damages to man made satellites.

Dismissing the loss of the night sky as “pretty pictures” is dramatically underselling astronomy and the benefits that astronomy bring to all of us.

Re: An image of the Australian desert illuminates satellite pollution

#46
post #16

"Stitching together 343 distinct photos," I don't doubt that this is a real problem for astronomers and photographers, but I feel like if you had to work that hard, it doesn't really make your case.

These photos are taken in pitch-black darkness. You need to take a lot of exposures in order to get the data necessary to even see anything.

No, you need to take a long exposure. Multiple exposures may improve the quality but isn’t necessary at all.

Re: An image of the Australian desert illuminates satellite pollution

#47
post #28

Just paint the satellites black?

Can't tell if you're joking or not, but SpaceX has indeed been collaborating with astronomical observatories to reduce the apparent magnitude (brightness) to ground for Starlink satellites. It's not as if the potential issues weren't apparent and reported on pretty early on, ie, [0] in summer 2020 before the network entered beta. It's not perfect and the period during orbit raising before the satellites enter operati…

It's not just optical pollution, the same satellites visible in the article photo over the Pinnacles are leaking radio spectrum noise into the ostensibly "Radio Quiet Zone" of the nearby Murchison that's home to cosmic microwave sensors and one regional part of the developing global SKA radio telescope platform.

Re: An image of the Australian desert illuminates satellite pollution

#48
post #16

"Stitching together 343 distinct photos," I don't doubt that this is a real problem for astronomers and photographers, but I feel like if you had to work that hard, it doesn't really make your case.

These photos are taken in pitch-black darkness. You need to take a lot of exposures in order to get the data necessary to even see anything.

This is a single 10sec exposure in the Aussie outback on old consumer gear ( Sony a7iii )

https://www.instagram.com/p/CersLuLBfCz

You don’t need multiples, and you don’t need an overly long exposure.

Re: An image of the Australian desert illuminates satellite pollution

#49

It is so polluted you need professional camera gear and processing of hundreds of photos together in order to show it. Get real. Internet access for poor, remote rural areas across the global is more important than convenient timelapse photography.

The poor can't afford it. Military use is the only way Starlink will stay afloat.

You are so far from the mark out is staggering. Starlink is priced differently in different countries, and is wildly popular in developing and undeveloped countries.

Re: An image of the Australian desert illuminates satellite pollution

#50
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can't tell if you're joking or not Not. Often obvious simple solutions are overlooked. For example, NASA spent huge sums of money trying to design a gas gauge that will work in weightless conditions. Until an engineer suggested just having a "reserve" tank that has enough to bring the spacecraft out of orbit. Another one was NASA spend a lot of money trying to figure out how to not have the Apollo capsule overheat…

> Not. Often obvious simple solutions are overlooked. I'm not sure I'd say "often" has something like what you offered up been overlooked by SpaceX. We're long, long past the early eras when everything was first getting figured out, and the timescales and costs are totally different. Talking of "obvious", painting something black in orbit has clear enormous thermal implications, and there are aspects of the system th…

I've been designing things my entire professional life, and yes, engineers overlook the obvious all the time (me too!).

I always look for simpler ways, and often enough find them.

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