It is something like Polish Blik / Chinese WeChat payment system, I understand?
Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant
41–50 of 789 posts
Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Something as common as the dominant payment system should not depend on proprietary software. Name one dominant payment system worldwide that doesn't? Banks are proprietary, credit cards are proprietary, paypal, crypto is all proprietary.
> crypto is all proprietary What?
I think a steelmanned version of their comment is that crypto apps are proprietary, which I think is mostly true. There are open source apps, but most of the big ones are all proprietary.
Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant
#43I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…
Interestig, but this is also worrying to know that the government now knows exactly what you bought, where, when, and for how much. They can also (if there's a rogue government) create fake transactions to implicate you in things you haven't done
Visa/Mastercard report all of that to governments anyway.
Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant
#44I'm a Brazilian. Everything here can be paid through pix. It's very convenient, fast reliable and, for a country like ours where walking on the streets with money is a risk, safe. There's only one reason I don't use it: there's no FLOSS app (AFAIK) to use it. Something as common as the dominant payment system should not depend on proprietary software.
Good were the days when you only could get robbed by what you had in your pockets.
Nowadays one goes around with a direct link to his or her entire bank account. And criminals know this in Brazil. They will rob your phone, but what they really want is to use you as an ATM. Private banks are not held accountable to the massive and rampant identity fraud in banking, where criminals will launder criminal transactions.
The private sectors does not care. Somebody who opened an account yesterday receiving R$5000,00 at 2 in the morning in the middle of the street? Nothing suspicious... This same account cashing out at an ATM the same next day? It is OK to me...
Brazilian banks need to be held accountable to 'know your customer' laws ASAP and be held liable for criminal activity undertaken on their systems.
Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant
#45> Pix has spiced up Brazil’s fusty banking sector, but it gives the central bank a worrying amount of power I think a largely prefer a government-run payment system than an US company monopoly.
Payment systems take huge fees. It is always good if they get back to the country and not elsewhere. Digital paying is something fundamental. Like electricity.
Brazilian Pix is free though, at least for the time being. IMO the biggest thing is not the money behind it, but the ability to track individual payments. Even that, I prefer the government to have that information, than some shady owner of a private company
Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance. Pix can't facilitate cross-border micro payments.
A more apt description would be it doesn't currently do it, there is no technical limitation. You can send cents across borders just fine with Wise and others without any fuss.
it's not about technical expertise but more about being a global power.
Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance. Does it work internationally? Does it send USD as well, or only the real? If it solves th same problems, why is Brazil considering banning self-custodial USD stablecoins? And why has there been an ongoing discussion about launching mBRL, and stablecoin pegged to the real? https://www.pymnts.com/cryptocurrency/2024/brazil-considers-...
Nearly every non-western country has it's own e-cash type system. Everything from m-pesa in Kenya to Gcash in the Philippines to PromptPay in Thailand to Alipay in China to SGQR in Singapore to MPay in Oman.... The pattern is that these systems are nearly all fully centralised, require ID, zero privacy, usually government sanctioned, and not cross border.
And quite a lot of Western ones like Vipps. And see this long list: https://truelayer.com/reports/alternative-payments/european-...
> require ID, zero privacy, usually government sanctioned
Unfortunately systems that don't have those requirements are going to be money laundering channels. I wish it wasn't such a big concern but it's unavoidable.
Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance. Pix can't facilitate cross-border micro payments.
> Pix can't facilitate cross-border micro payments. No reason it couldn't. Bizum (mobile payments in Spain) started with just Spain but can now be used for payments across & to/from Spain, Italy, Portugal, and Andorra. Bizum is also a member of European Mobile Payment Systems Association which I think will eventually lead to all members being able to make transfers to other members, but that might a somewhat dream ra…
All Eurozone countries, all bu one an EU member (and that one is very small has a very close trade deal with the EU) so not really cross border except from a certain legalistic angle.
The practicalities are very different from transferring between say Brazil and the US.
Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Interestig, but this is also worrying to know that the government now knows exactly what you bought, where, when, and for how much. They can also (if there's a rogue government) create fake transactions to implicate you in things you haven't done
Is it much more worrying than having Visa being able to do that? Especially when you see how the US is going downhill, I think it'd rather take the risk of having to deal with hypothetical local fascist state.
There’s pretty much no practical difference between Visa knowing all this stuff and the government knowing it. All Visa’s data is at most one subpoena away and that’s the optimistic scenario.
Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant
#50Yes, now in Brazil you can hardly find anyone not using Pix. It is all digital and free. Even in Argentina and Paraguay, many local merchants are now accepting Pix.
Is there anything preventing a merchant in e.g. the US from using Pix?
It's denominated in the Brazilian real rather than USD?