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After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

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Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#41

In general it is a good practice to assume other parties are making a good faith effort, but after so many obvious cockups, that grace has been exhausted. My assumption is that there is a lot of blow-back so they are restoring a few high profile names so they can say, "see, we aren't stopping science!". It is good this handful of people are back on the job, but I assume the NIH is like most other organizations -- the…

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Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#42
post #18

It’s wild how America is just complacent with the destruction of the federal government. We see all of these red flags across the agencies yet there’s minimal uproar. I have seen a few protests (50501, recently) but nothing that stops this wanton destruction. - $6.6T sell off in market due to Orange administration trade war in just _2 days_ - USAID decimated - US trade partners lost - Federal agency head count losses…

well said.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#43
post #18

It’s wild how America is just complacent with the destruction of the federal government. We see all of these red flags across the agencies yet there’s minimal uproar. I have seen a few protests (50501, recently) but nothing that stops this wanton destruction. - $6.6T sell off in market due to Orange administration trade war in just _2 days_ - USAID decimated - US trade partners lost - Federal agency head count losses…

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Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#44
post #24
post #18

It’s wild how America is just complacent with the destruction of the federal government. We see all of these red flags across the agencies yet there’s minimal uproar. I have seen a few protests (50501, recently) but nothing that stops this wanton destruction. - $6.6T sell off in market due to Orange administration trade war in just _2 days_ - USAID decimated - US trade partners lost - Federal agency head count losses…

What kind of protest do you imagine could stop Trump from being Trump? His own staff tried that for four years (2016-2020) and made next to no progress. Now he's surrounded himself with enablers, and the Dems won't even make a real effort to oppose the stuff he's doing.

The kind where he is forced to leave office and/or the country.

Like sedition is a crime still so I'm not going to advocate for the downfall of the US government, but if you're asking "what kind of protest can stop Trump" then there are dozens of examples over the last twenty years to look at for "protests that result in the head of state no longer being the head of state."

We're just not there, yet.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#45
post #29

In general it is a good practice to assume other parties are making a good faith effort, but after so many obvious cockups, that grace has been exhausted. My assumption is that there is a lot of blow-back so they are restoring a few high profile names so they can say, "see, we aren't stopping science!". It is good this handful of people are back on the job, but I assume the NIH is like most other organizations -- the…

> In general it is a good practice to assume other parties are making a good faith effort This has never been true for this administration, which A) already had a previous term to show us how incompetent its leaders are, and B) is working from a decades-old playbook of making government more dysfunctional so that people lose faith in it and want to eliminate it.

It's quite possible that the playbook they are looking at is more similar to C) starting a fire in the reichstag...

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#46
post #18

It’s wild how America is just complacent with the destruction of the federal government. We see all of these red flags across the agencies yet there’s minimal uproar. I have seen a few protests (50501, recently) but nothing that stops this wanton destruction. - $6.6T sell off in market due to Orange administration trade war in just _2 days_ - USAID decimated - US trade partners lost - Federal agency head count losses…

> Wonder if this is what it was like in the months preceding the _2008 subprime mortage crisis_

No, that was mostly people just living their lives with a few standard shows about "housing prices are high again and people are worried" followed by months of "houses are worth nothing now and lots of people cannot pay their mortgages and cannot refinance" and then a few years of "this was a 100% illegal eviction notice, did you even check or just assume none of your customers paid?"

Nothing at all like what's currently going on in the US federal government right now.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#48
post #11

Is there any proof that they're coding errors? A simpler explanation, to me at least, is that they first blanket fired people by dubious criteria, and are now using this as an excuse to backpedal when they realize they've cut something important.

It's either an actual 'coding error' because DOGE doesn't actually understand WTF they're doing or it's what you're suggesting. So it's Incompetence or Malice. Pick your poison.

Both scenarios are incompetence and malice.

They are in charge of making cuts but never bothered to understand what the departments do, the value, or where the excesses are. Yet they still make the cuts.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#49

In general it is a good practice to assume other parties are making a good faith effort, but after so many obvious cockups, that grace has been exhausted. My assumption is that there is a lot of blow-back so they are restoring a few high profile names so they can say, "see, we aren't stopping science!". It is good this handful of people are back on the job, but I assume the NIH is like most other organizations -- the…

Who's they? The Department of Health and Human Services?

There are proximate causes and there are the real causes. Yes, HHS let them go, but the reality is DOGE told HHS to cut them.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#50
The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business process. You are literally playing with entire lives here as if they are disposable things. This alone makes what is happening inhumane. Even if it did make things more 'efficient' I would rather a humane government than whatever efficient government they are aiming for here. The second incredibly obvious reason why this is wrong is because this isn't a business. Money isn't the point. Let me repeat this one more time. Money is not the point of a government. I can't understand any argument about government efficiency that only looks at money. It is about total benefit to society, period. If you hire someone that is 'breakeven' in what they produce vs consume from a pure production point of view you could argue that for a business they should go, but from a government point of view you have employed someone and that person is churning the rest of the economy and society has one less drain. In other words all of society is way better off with that breakeven, or even net negative, person employed in government. In other words, an efficient government actually can have what would be considered waste in a corporate world and that is not only OK, but the right answer. I know of several people that are 'employed' but net negatives and society is way better off with that arrangement than having them on the streets. Is there a place for money/efficiency discussions in government? Sure, but if it is the only thing you look at then you really need to re-think things. There are many, many other ways this is morally and economically wrong but those are my top two.
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