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IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

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Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#41

Post by huggyface »

vibrunazo wrote: post #14
metatronscube wrote: post #2

The simple fact is that before the iphone, many 'smart' phones were complicated horrible devices (badly designed from a hardware point of view) with very poor UI/UX. Then after the iphone they were all like the iphone in some way or another. If you ask any non-technical person out there they will say the same. The iphone set the benchmark. So I can understand why apple feels like folk are just ripping them off at tim…

What would be better for the users? Assuming the iPhone was better than what came before. Which action from incumbents would be best for users? a) Do not copy the iPhone. Make old ugly phones. (What blackberry did) Now users are stuck with old ugly phones. b) Make something different, not because it's better, but only for being different's sake. (what windows phone did) Forces users to adapt to something new instead…

Apple was one of several manufacturers bringing hardware innovations happening in the industry to smartphones: Large, colourful LCD screens, mobile processors, GPUs, and wireless technologies. None of that was pioneered by Apple (paradoxically a lot of it was courtesy of Samsung). A lot follows from what is made possible by the new hardware.

Imagine that tomorrow someone -- say Apple -- makes a device that can read your thoughts. Nokia rushes a thought-reading smartphone to the market just before everyone else gets their own thought-reading smartphones on the market. Does Nokia suddenly have a worldwide exclusive right to it?

This is all very similar to the countless "on a computer" patents.

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#42

Post by bad_user »

raganesh wrote: post #36
vibrunazo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be better for the users? Assuming the iPhone was better than what came before. Which action from incumbents would be best for users? a) Do not copy the iPhone. Make old ugly phones. (What blackberry did) Now users are stuck with old ugly phones. b) Make something different, not because it's better, but only for being different's sake. (what windows phone did) Forces users to adapt to something new instead…

You are the founder of evolup.com. Let us say your product/service becomes a huge success. Seeing your success, existing social games developers want to do the same. Which action from those existing developers would be best for users? a) Do not copy your product/service. Continue doing things the old way. b) Make something different, not because it's better, but only for being different's sake. Forces users to adapt…

If by definition of "success" you mean getting rich and improving the lives of people in the process, then does it really matter if other developers will start copying from them?

"If that happens to me, I'll lose all motivation to innovate any further"

Well, tough luck kid, but a free market has no morals. In a free market the law of the fittest applies. And you should be glad there are still free markets out there, in which people like us can thrive.

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#43

Post by vibrunazo »

raganesh wrote: post #36
vibrunazo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be better for the users? Assuming the iPhone was better than what came before. Which action from incumbents would be best for users? a) Do not copy the iPhone. Make old ugly phones. (What blackberry did) Now users are stuck with old ugly phones. b) Make something different, not because it's better, but only for being different's sake. (what windows phone did) Forces users to adapt to something new instead…

You are the founder of evolup.com. Let us say your product/service becomes a huge success. Seeing your success, existing social games developers want to do the same. Which action from those existing developers would be best for users? a) Do not copy your product/service. Continue doing things the old way. b) Make something different, not because it's better, but only for being different's sake. Forces users to adapt…

You're asking the wrong question to the wrong person. I'm actively in contact with other local game developers trying to get them to do the same thing I'm doing (and compete with me). I've even helped others with implementation details. Which, I believe, will help grow the ecosystem for all of us, myself included. Since what I'm doing is too new (arguably ahead of its time), there's still some prejudice from both users and investors against my technology. If others were doing it as well, that would help me. Do you wanna copy me as too? Feel free to contact me, I'll help you. I can teach you how to properly implement procedural generation to reduce your costs with game artists.

At the end of the day. I trust my skills in my area. And deep inside, I'm confident that no matter how much I'm copied, whoever copies me will always be one step behind me. Because I'll keep on innovating one step further. The only reason I founded a startup is because I believe I'm better than the competition, otherwise I wouldn't have. Realistically, I believe my competitors are much more likely to become clients to my API than to actually try to implement it themselves.

That's just one of the many reasons humans will continue to create and innovate, no matter how much innovation is copied.

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#44

Post by MatthewPhillips »

programminggeek wrote: post #39

So, a friend of mine years ago after the iPhone came out purchased a Samsung pre-Android "smartphone". He bought it because it "looked like an iPhone" and did smartphone things like the internet and mp3's (sort of). He quickly realized that it was NOT an iPhone or even a very smart smartphone. Since you don't always get to use the phones in stores, you don't always know what you're buying. If it "looks like an iPhone…

What phone does your friend use today?

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#45

Post by kalleboo »

taligent wrote: post #7
methodin wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did not the same thing occur prior where most cellphones had terrible menu based systems? If you shake up an industry with a superior interface, and users get comfortable with it, there is no reasonable argument that continuing with an older standard would be a wise business decision.

True. But it's what you do when faced with this predicament that counts. Compare the approach of Samsung versus Microsoft. Samsung pretty clearly took the iPhone and decided to make their own equivalent. It's an approach they've used (with great success) when competing with Sony. Unlucky for them Apple patented their work every step of the way. Microsoft however went back to the drawing board, looked at how users wer…

And Windows Phone is tanking and Samsung are doing great.

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#46

Post by mcantelon »

podperson wrote: post #5
StavrosK wrote: post #3

From what I can see, that memo isn't anything that any company wouldn't produce internally when faced with such a strong competitor, and it doesn't imply that they wanted to outright copy the iPhone, but good luck convincing a judge of that... Also, did their lawyer fuck up by mentioning the memo? I'm not well aware of how these things work.

It seems like the lawyer may have fucked up, or it may be some brilliant Perry Mason-eque trap. But if the latter, why fight the memo's introduction into evidence in the first place? So I'd guess it was a mistake. Anyway, the memo by itself doesn't damn Samsung, but in context with, oh, the radius of curvature of every corner of key products being changed to exactly match Apple's devices, the color and arrangement of…

Kind of like how Apple modeled themselves after Sony. Interesting that this sort of legal battle never happened with car manufacturers as cars from various manufacturers tend to share fashionable design attributes.

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#47

Post by brk »

_ea1k wrote: post #20
brk wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, you wouldn't want to continue with an older standard at that point, but I don't think that is the argument. If I've seen one consistent thing from Apple product design, it's that they appear to iterate continuously on the hardware and software/UI/IX components until they feel they have reached the absolute best (and before a wrong-tangent thread starts, that doesn't mean it is THE best, just Apple's opinion of…

> That was certainly not perceived as the "perfect" solution > at the time, and probably still isn't. There was room for > innovative differentiation in how user input was handled > (physical keyboard, Palm grafitti-style input, chording keyboard, something new). I understand why this perception exists, but I do not think that it represents a fair assessment of what happened. The first Android device after the iPhone…

Grafitti was just a throw-away example, I wouldn't have actually banked on that either.

I disagree that the slate is what the "market wanted", it's what Apple told them they wanted, which is a very polished skill of Apple.

Apple consistently sets their marketing apart, and many/most other vendors follow up with "me too" products and marketing. I don't recall seeing any of the keyboard/trackball type phones really truly pushing and standing behing those products as a "THIS is what you want" type of marketing. It's kind of like Apple stakes out a claim and defends it vehemently with their product marketing. Many other vendors try something and kinda say "we think you might want to consider this", but they don't seem to truly own and embrace their own decisions.

Apple basically ignores everything else and puts out their own concepts. I don't see this as much from other companies, though I do try to really look and keep an open mind.

I personally think that an elegantly designed and marketed keyboard phone could have been a solid iPhone rival, maybe even still could.

I had that first Motorola Droid, but the software truly sucked at the time. Email client was lame, didn't support signatures at all. The keyboard was OK, but not great. The OS consistently fumbled switching between soft and physical keyboard by throwing away whatever you were typing. So, I don't think the "market" rejected the early keyboard phones as much as they rejected to overall state of those devices at the time relative to iOS.

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#48

Post by cube13 »

mcantelon wrote: post #46
podperson wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like the lawyer may have fucked up, or it may be some brilliant Perry Mason-eque trap. But if the latter, why fight the memo's introduction into evidence in the first place? So I'd guess it was a mistake. Anyway, the memo by itself doesn't damn Samsung, but in context with, oh, the radius of curvature of every corner of key products being changed to exactly match Apple's devices, the color and arrangement of…

Kind of like how Apple modeled themselves after Sony. Interesting that this sort of legal battle never happened with car manufacturers as cars from various manufacturers tend to share fashionable design attributes.

That's because they license the hell out of their patents to each other.

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#49

Post by ajross »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #9
StavrosK wrote: post #3

From what I can see, that memo isn't anything that any company wouldn't produce internally when faced with such a strong competitor, and it doesn't imply that they wanted to outright copy the iPhone, but good luck convincing a judge of that... Also, did their lawyer fuck up by mentioning the memo? I'm not well aware of how these things work.

I don't think that this is intended as a smoking gun, it's one part of a picture Apple want to build up - that Samsung were highly aware of the iPhone, were actively assessing it's design in comparison to their products, and that this path ultimately lead to them copying significant elements. In that context I think it's damaging to Samsung as it's hard to say it doesn't show a little part of that picture, but obviou…

Well, of course they were. Everyone was. The iPhone was a groundbreaking, hugely disruptive device. And everyone else's products sucked in comparison. And Samsung knew it, and wanted to know why.

This very much seems like a misdirected argument, at least from the ethical perspective. The question isn't whether or not Samsung was trying to emulate the elements that made the iPhone a success, the question is to whether it should be allowed or not. A world where that kind of "copying" is disallowed isn't one I want to live in.

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#50

Post by bdcravens »

Wohlf wrote: post #29
cyclinghacker wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard more than one person refer to their Android tablet as a "fake iPad", like it's some sort of designer handbag.

Jokes on them, the Nexus 7 is a better product IMO.

What % of Android tablets in circulation are the Nexus 7? I'm sure cyclinghacker2's friends are referring to the Galaxy Tab, the Xoom, etc.
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