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A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

theguardian.com

41–50 of 188 posts

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#41
post #6

Black Swan was a big deal, but this article massively overstates the average Dane's faith in the system. The welfare state is certainly not reverred as a religion, and the current state of it is always a hot discussion topic with pulls in either direction. Unlike what this article suggests, tax fraud is also relatively common (one would have to be rather daft to assume that a country with such absurdly high taxation…

> one would have to be rather daft to assume that a country with such absurdly high taxation did not have tax evasion as a key pastime - although probably not as aggressively as in places like the US

I think there is a distinction between avoidance (typically considered legal) and evasion (fraud and illegal). Everyone should practice avoidance, using the system as designed. IME, evasion is much higher in countries with say a VAT than the US. Paying cash for transactions, even rather large ones, is common in order to avoid 10-20%+ VAT.

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#42

> One out of every two Danes has seen the documentary. Why not simpler English -- "half of the country has watched it" Also pendatic aside -- i think "every two danes" is a stretch -- i am sure we can find many instances of "two danes" where both has watched it. Or neither. Some are being born as we speak (write).

One out of every two X is an extremely common and perfectly reasonable phrase in english, meaning your complaint about finding 2 Danes who haven't watched it is nonsensical as we know they mean on average.

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#43
That seems a bit overblown. I doubt that most wasn't aware that things like this is going on. Perhaps the scale and the number of people involved is a little more than most would have expected. The worst bit, for me and most of the people I debated the documentary with is how people can be so unapologetic about doing irreparable environmental damage. There's currently a another case where a company have blatantly mismanaged handling of polluted soil, in the name of profit. The fact that these people don't give a shit, and the people working of them just hit a wall if they're trying to alert local government is the most choking, not that there's corruption.

Also this type of corruption isn't seen by Danes in our day to day life, so they don't really register on our corruption perception. I still struggle to view it as corruption and not just straight up criminal activity or deliberate environmental damage.

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#44
post #26

Its just people. People are the same everywhere, and are fundamentally unpredictable systems. How large groups behave does depends to a certain extent on context: by compared to others and your socio-economic situation. How they publicly expressed their values are entirely different from their behavior. This is to the dread of incumbent governments and pollsters. If you starve a wealthy man for 2 weeks he will be rea…

More accurately, I think it's just confusion about the Law of Large Numbers.

People confuse population-scale average behaviors with guarantees about individuals.

In any country you can find outliers that don't match the country's norms.

The hard part is that the devious ones can leverage their country's (or culture, or state, or relgious affiliation, etc.) norms to disguise their bad behavior. It's easier to scam someone if you pretend to blend in with groups known for being trustworthy.

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#45
post #39

> One out of every two Danes has seen the documentary. Why not simpler English -- "half of the country has watched it" Also pendatic aside -- i think "every two danes" is a stretch -- i am sure we can find many instances of "two danes" where both has watched it. Or neither. Some are being born as we speak (write).

> Why not simpler English -- "half of the country has watched it" I guess as it was aimed at a British audience, and that is not an uncommon way for us to form such sentences. If you hadn't mentioned it, I'd not even have noticed it, simply parsing it as "half".

If this were social media, at least 10 people including me would be replying with the Major Hellstrom Sees Three Fingers meme.

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#46
post #26

Its just people. People are the same everywhere, and are fundamentally unpredictable systems. How large groups behave does depends to a certain extent on context: by compared to others and your socio-economic situation. How they publicly expressed their values are entirely different from their behavior. This is to the dread of incumbent governments and pollsters. If you starve a wealthy man for 2 weeks he will be rea…

You are saying humans are unpredictable, but then you make predictions.

I think you are saying that people's behavior changes based on stimulus. That doesn't mean they're unpredictable, just that the prediction shouldn't be unchanged behavior regardless of stimulus.

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#47
Besides the description of the scandal for non-Danish audiences, this was also an interesting reflection on the deception inherent in the production of any kind of documentary work, even when it's portrayed as straight CCTV footage.

> All documentaries are artificial: their footage has been carefully threshed and sieved with an eye to telling a story or pushing an argument. The Black Swan, though, relies on the unblinking, real-time gaze of hidden CCTV cameras, so we lull ourselves into thinking that we’re seeing the full picture, the full truth. No such thing. Instead, we get evasion upon evasion: Smajic’s charade for her clients, Malm cheating the taxman, TV2 withholding their work from the police, Brügger keeping details from his audience. Smajic’s final bluff merely confirms what Brügger seems to have believed throughout his career: everywhere, there are conspiracies and lies that he must expose, even if he has to participate in the dissembling himself.

> ...Smajic believes she’s a victim of journalistic deceit. The Black Swan was meant to be about her life, she said, with the hidden camera footage being used only sparingly to corroborate her stories. She’d been offered no security during the filming, she said. When TV2 screened the first three episodes for her approval, they were really just raw, unedited clips, she maintained, and in any case, she’d been strongly medicated after a surgery and couldn’t assess them with a clear mind. (“Amira watched the edited episodes, they just needed finalising,” TV2’s Nørgaard told me. “During the four hours she spent with the editorial team that day, she appeared unaffected and seemed coherent, as we also documented in the series.”) Smajic hadn’t been running any other office at the time, she said to me, and in any case, “they hadn’t bought the rights to every single moment in my life”.

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#48
post #46
post #26

Its just people. People are the same everywhere, and are fundamentally unpredictable systems. How large groups behave does depends to a certain extent on context: by compared to others and your socio-economic situation. How they publicly expressed their values are entirely different from their behavior. This is to the dread of incumbent governments and pollsters. If you starve a wealthy man for 2 weeks he will be rea…

You are saying humans are unpredictable, but then you make predictions. I think you are saying that people's behavior changes based on stimulus. That doesn't mean they're unpredictable, just that the prediction shouldn't be unchanged behavior regardless of stimulus.

I read it as the GP saying there's often confusion about assuming behavior about individuals as opposed to making predictions based on trends of large groups of individuals.

For some population, you can safely state that some portion of them will contract appendicitis. You cannot make that same assertion about an individual person. This likewise carries to specific behaviors (theft, charity, becoming a pet owner, etc).

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#49
post #26

Its just people. People are the same everywhere, and are fundamentally unpredictable systems. How large groups behave does depends to a certain extent on context: by compared to others and your socio-economic situation. How they publicly expressed their values are entirely different from their behavior. This is to the dread of incumbent governments and pollsters. If you starve a wealthy man for 2 weeks he will be rea…

Culture has a large influence.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-12785802.amp

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#50
In the third world, corruption is very open from the clerk in a local revenue office to the top ministers/secretaries. There is a price for every service.

In the West, it is hard to see low-level corruption (bribes for services) in offices. However, corruption takes form in the shape of collusion; and this collusion is pretty much legal. Revolving door, consultants, lobbyists, conflicts of interests, setting up NGOs to grab money from the govt, offering sinecure jobs like advisors, directors, etc for friends and family--these are some strategies to do unethical yet legal stuff in the West.

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