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The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

meghanboilard.substack.com

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Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#41

Post by doug_durham »

smithkl42 wrote: post #7

I wish the author was a little less over-wrought in her descriptions of the Green family's religious commitments. I've heard complaints before about the Green's artifact acquisition process, and they've had to return some manuscripts: it's a story worth investigating and telling. But it distracts from the author's main point when she's making snide comments about their faith. Yes, they're Christians who are successfu…

It goes deeper than their "faith". These are the people who took away healthcare benefits from all Americans because they didn't personally want to fund birth control and women's health. It's reductive to say that the author looks negatively on the family because of their faith alone.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#42

Post by themaninthedark »

duped wrote: post #18
smithkl42 wrote: post #7

I wish the author was a little less over-wrought in her descriptions of the Green family's religious commitments. I've heard complaints before about the Green's artifact acquisition process, and they've had to return some manuscripts: it's a story worth investigating and telling. But it distracts from the author's main point when she's making snide comments about their faith. Yes, they're Christians who are successfu…

What exactly do you find "snide" or "sarcastic?" The thesis of TFA is that their faith motivated the crimes. You can't tell the story without talking about how they choose to practice their faith.

Aside from what I called out in my sibling comment these two are pretty snide:

"A fortune built on the sales of sewing notions and glitter has paid for many of the country’s most influential megachurches and scriptures delivered to the most remote corners of the world. A careful calculation of potential proselytized souls drives every financial decision."

"Perhaps the Greens, in their inexperience, did not understand the magnitude of their actions. Perhaps the Greens just didn’t care. Maybe when you believe that human souls are on the line, it’s easy to unshackle yourself to the ethical and legal trade guidelines that shackle secular academics. Maybe the money saved and the ancient items procured were powerful enough to make the risk worthwhile. "

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#43

Post by Cthulhu_ »

zippyman55 wrote: post #40

When I visit that store, I try to imagine what the store would look like with all the “made in China” products removed. My visual is the store would almost be empty.

This is the reality of things, China's manufacturing capacity and international sale is insane. There's a chain of stores in the Netherlands too called Action, full of cheap Chinese produced items. It's not even particularly bad or anything.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#44

Post by adamc »

HumblyTossed wrote: post #36
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. I think the author's tone in this article, in a nutshell, exemplifies what was a huge driving force of so many evangelical's in the US now being firmly in the MAGA camp, even though that seems paradoxical to many of us. For a long time now, many people who's religious values are deeply important to them have felt disrespected and looked down upon by "the left" (yes, I'm obviously painting with a bro…

> For a long time now, many people who's religious values are deeply important to them have felt disrespected and looked down upon by "the left" (yes, I'm obviously painting with a broad brush here). In subtle and not-so-subtle ways, the elite left essentially said "you all are backwards and silly". A lot of them DO come off as backwards and silly. Christianity boils down to two commandments. TWO! Love God and love y…

Just to drop a link that is largely consonant with this viewpoint: https://johnpavlovitz.substack.com/

"Silly" and "backwards" aren't the terms I'd use, though. What bothers me about a lot of it is that it is mean, even cruel, and utterly inconsistent with the character of Jesus given in the gospels.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#45

Post by Fluorescence »

Digory wrote: post #10
smithkl42 wrote: post #7

I wish the author was a little less over-wrought in her descriptions of the Green family's religious commitments. I've heard complaints before about the Green's artifact acquisition process, and they've had to return some manuscripts: it's a story worth investigating and telling. But it distracts from the author's main point when she's making snide comments about their faith. Yes, they're Christians who are successfu…

It’s fine to be inexperienced with Christianity, but it skews the reporting. For example “kingdom giver” is not someone who gives kingdoms, it’s someone who gives to Christ’s kingdom. But the widow and her mite is an example of kingdom giving as much as the Greens.

>> someone who gives kingdoms

The article doesn't claim that so it seems your Christian sensitivities have skewed your reading comprehension.

It's referencing a Forbes article using the term to distinguish between thoughtless arbitrary giving vs. giving with purpose:

"Even the most generous Christian philanthropists often don't see the purpose of their giving," says Dr. Mark Rutland, the new ORU president and founder of the Global Servants evangelical ministry. "There are impulse givers, people who give to their alma mater or their church or some particular ministry with which they become familiar—but the Greens are Kingdom givers. ... They consider it an honor; they consider it a mission."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kerryadolan/2023/02/13/this-bil...

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#46

Post by piokoch »

1986 wrote: post #19
Beestie wrote: post #12

Unclear as to the intent of the word "Heist" in the title. Seems they are paying top dollar if not more for collections sometimes not even authenticating them. As long as they make everything available to the public and to researchers, I don't see anything wrong with it. Also unclear on why this is a two-part story. Is there some big shoe to drop? Trying to avoid the impression that the author is not terribly fond of…

The "heist", which presumably gets covered in part 2, is that a lot of these items were originally looted from Iraq after the US invasion in 2003. US Customs ended up seizing a lot of them, and about 15,000 items ended up having to be returned. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby_Lobby_smuggling_scandal

Well, visit British Museum, you will learn what is professional looting (a.k.a. robbery), not some amateurish second hand purchases done by those hobbyists.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#47

Post by zdw »

beedeebeedee wrote: post #23
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. I think the author's tone in this article, in a nutshell, exemplifies what was a huge driving force of so many evangelical's in the US now being firmly in the MAGA camp, even though that seems paradoxical to many of us. For a long time now, many people who's religious values are deeply important to them have felt disrespected and looked down upon by "the left" (yes, I'm obviously painting with a bro…

> For a long time now, many people who's religious values are deeply important to them have felt disrespected and looked down upon by "the left" (yes, I'm obviously painting with a broad brush here). In subtle and not-so-subtle ways, the elite left essentially said "you all are backwards and silly" Most of the criticism that I have heard and read is not about evangelicals being "backwards and silly" but is about thei…

The problem is that in the 70's when conservative/libertarian economics and the religious right had a shotgun marriage which spawned Reagan and most of the "government is the enemy" schtick, usually the former group actually was driving the agenda, using a carrot of "we'll get rid of abortion" to lead the latter.

The problem is that this almighty dollar worship is far more corrosive and destructive to society and ethics of everyone involved, and ends up eroding any sort of moral high ground that the cojoined group has.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#48

Post by kumbayamysdog »

smithkl42 wrote: post #7

I wish the author was a little less over-wrought in her descriptions of the Green family's religious commitments. I've heard complaints before about the Green's artifact acquisition process, and they've had to return some manuscripts: it's a story worth investigating and telling. But it distracts from the author's main point when she's making snide comments about their faith. Yes, they're Christians who are successfu…

[flagged]

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#49

Post by Larrikin »

hackable_sand wrote: post #35
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. I think the author's tone in this article, in a nutshell, exemplifies what was a huge driving force of so many evangelical's in the US now being firmly in the MAGA camp, even though that seems paradoxical to many of us. For a long time now, many people who's religious values are deeply important to them have felt disrespected and looked down upon by "the left" (yes, I'm obviously painting with a bro…

Atheists and fundamentalists are two sides of the same coin.

Not believing something without evidence is not the same as believing something despite the lack of evidence.

Re: The great Hobby Lobby artifact heist

#50

Post by flocciput »

Is it just me or has HN as a whole become... more Christian lately? A lot more defensive comments here than I would've expected, and I've seen in other threads people actually openly recommending religion/Christianity specifically as something that solved their problems. What's the deal here? I would've thought this would be a relatively atheist/agnostic community, if not one that eschews discussion of religion entirely.
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