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People who have migrated a large enough production codebase to Svelte 5, what's your devex like?
People who have migrated a large enough production codebase to Svelte 5, what's your devex like?
I'm almost finished with a large, complex app written with Svelte 5, web sockets and Threlte (Three JS) [0]. Previously, I'd written React for about a decade, mostly on the UI side of things. I vastly prefer Svelte, because of how clean the code feels. There's only one component per file, and the syntax looks and writes deceptively like vanilla JS and HTML. There's a bit of mind-warp when you realize Svelte doesn't w…
Is it though? Your `+page.svelte` is rendered on the server as well. Not only `.server.` is run on the server.
Agh, I understand why runes were implemented, but I still can't get myself to like them. It feels like Runes take away from what made Svelte Svelte (the simple, concise syntax), and changes like this seem like slow concessions back in that direction anyway.
They really are an improvement. Tracking data flow in a complicated component (bound props going in both directions, derived state, …) was terrible before runes — you just had to rely on compiler magic, which worked until it didn’t. Now it’s more or less obvious.
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You just have to build a big project with Svelte 5 and you will come to like them. A lot of magic is okay for simple application, but when you want to build anything that scales Svelte before runes was just horrible. With Svelte 5 and Runes you can look at any component and instantly know what it does. You couldn't do that with Svelte 4 unless you wrote the whole code yourself.
I think that's actually the core of the problem. It's the right choice for big projects. But Svelte was an absolute joy to use when brewing up a small or medium size project that you want to just work first time. Runes are the right choice for the library, but there is still a loss there.
I was highly skeptical of runes upon the original announcement and very cursory usage during beta phase.
When I finally got to porting a couple simple projects, I shrugged “this isn’t too bad, but what’s all the fuss?”. I ported a mid size project and it really clicked.
Then I went to build a brand new small project, and I found myself in love with runes. Having spent the time to get under the hood (especially using them as classes), being able to leverage them during the design phase really sped me up and facilitated cleaner/better state management.
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> A big part of the Svelte ecosystem is still using Svelte stores Just a nitpick, with runes in Svelte 5, stores have largely become obsolete. $state, $derived, and $effect replace most of the needs people would normally use stores for.
That's right; but a lot of packages, like Superforms, use stores.
It is compatible with both Svelte 4/5 and more importantly pure TS libraries.
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They really are an improvement. Tracking data flow in a complicated component (bound props going in both directions, derived state, …) was terrible before runes — you just had to rely on compiler magic, which worked until it didn’t. Now it’s more or less obvious.
I wish they had found a way to make the compiler just work. No longer having the ability to update the DOM by updating bound variables eliminates one main reason I wanted to use Svelte in the first place. I still love SFC though.
What do you mean by that?
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I'm almost finished with a large, complex app written with Svelte 5, web sockets and Threlte (Three JS) [0]. Previously, I'd written React for about a decade, mostly on the UI side of things. I vastly prefer Svelte, because of how clean the code feels. There's only one component per file, and the syntax looks and writes deceptively like vanilla JS and HTML. There's a bit of mind-warp when you realize Svelte doesn't w…
>It's very clear what is on the server and what is on the client. Is it though? Your `+page.svelte` is rendered on the server as well. Not only ` .server. ` is run on the server.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wish they had found a way to make the compiler just work. No longer having the ability to update the DOM by updating bound variables eliminates one main reason I wanted to use Svelte in the first place. I still love SFC though.
> No longer having the ability to update the DOM by updating bound variables What do you mean by that?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> No longer having the ability to update the DOM by updating bound variables What do you mean by that?
In Svelte, traditionally, changing the value of a variable updates DOM elements using that variable.