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Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

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Re: Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

#41

Anyone else think this is a huge non-story? Like, of course there's going to be oxygen in distant galaxies. Why wouldn't there be? It would be far more interesting if there wasn't oxygen in distant galaxies.

Those of us who read the article think otherwise.

Re: Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody dogmatically believes in this. This is not an "ideology", just some people having fun speculating existence. A far cry from religion and conspiracy nuts. Stop being so grumpy!

That's not true, as made aware to mainstream people when the Zizian murders made news. People in crisis are finding their existential grounding in these emerging belief systems about "the simulation" and other scifi-inspired ideas, are taking them exactly as seriously as novel belief systems from other eras, and are assembling into communities that collectively reinforce their beliefs. I don't think you can really pr…

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Re: Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

#43

Anyone else think this is a huge non-story? Like, of course there's going to be oxygen in distant galaxies. Why wouldn't there be? It would be far more interesting if there wasn't oxygen in distant galaxies.

I'd say the same thing for biological life, but it'll still be newsworthy when we discover it the first time.

Re: Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody dogmatically believes in this. This is not an "ideology", just some people having fun speculating existence. A far cry from religion and conspiracy nuts. Stop being so grumpy!

That's not true, as made aware to mainstream people when the Zizian murders made news. People in crisis are finding their existential grounding in these emerging belief systems about "the simulation" and other scifi-inspired ideas, are taking them exactly as seriously as novel belief systems from other eras, and are assembling into communities that collectively reinforce their beliefs. I don't think you can really pr…

Excellent points and I believe we all live and have always lived with poorly examined belief systems but I think the cynical assumption that folks have a slot for magical fantasies that they'll drive hard during crisies to be but unfair. Not untrue but unfair. It tends to ignore the amount of effort that went to maintain and enshrine these intricate ontologies of the past. It tends to blow past how much of a vehicle they were for other values of societies it reiged in. It underestimates the social functions of having common perspective play out, especially during times of crisies. And most of all, it forget that for a lot of people, they didn't have much evidence to the contrary. I'm not saying that you need modern science to see the magical aspect of some past system of beliefs but they were not exactly like the religious subjects of the modern age

I suppose neither you nor GP claim that most people have this "slot for magical thinking" but I find these properties of the religious thinking that I list above can be fulfilled by perspectives that aren't necessarily magical. And I dare say, such perspectives have supplanted them in general. I guess I'm replying to the adage "everyone has some religion." My reply being, "are you sure that's a religion?". Forgive the hazy brain rant.

Re: Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

#45
post #40

Anyone else think this is a huge non-story? Like, of course there's going to be oxygen in distant galaxies. Why wouldn't there be? It would be far more interesting if there wasn't oxygen in distant galaxies.

In my eyes even finding life is semi a non-story. Or like obviously there's going to be life even intelligent life since it spawned here. Any idea that we're unique is silly we're just emergent phenomena of initial conditions.

Perhaps more interesting that we haven't found life!

Re: Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

#46
post #17

Note the theory in this release is the oxygen is from a mature star releasing heavier elements, not plant life. I thought oxygen detection was extremely difficult, they must have better methods now. adding: https://news.arizona.edu/news/how-next-gen-telescopes-could-...

Oxygen detection on specific exoplanets is very difficult, unless the planet happens to pass between its star and Earth so we can see light passing through its atmosphere. Oxygen detection across an entire galaxy, not as hard.

Re: Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: >Galaxies usually start their lives full of young stars, which are made mostly of light elements like hydrogen and helium. As stars evolve, they create heavier elements like oxygen, which get dispersed through their host galaxy after they die. Researchers had thought that, at 300 million years old, the Universe was still too young to have galaxies ripe with heavy elements. However, the two ALMA stud…

I'm no astronomer but I believe that the first stars tended to be huge and short-lived. Is it surprising that there would have been supernova and heavy elements ejected from them that early?

Surprising in the sense that they have models and predictions putting out some number and this new measurement showed that they're not exactly correct. Could almost say business as usual when it comes to science like this.

Re: Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

#48
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each universe has one vote, and they vote on whether to keep the computer running or not. We haven't figured out how to vote yet.

Tech's general atheism has left many tech people with a somewhat compromised ideological immune system: preposterous magical thinking is laundered with sci-fi language and accepted as plausible. (cf. the simulation "hypothesis", Roko's basilisk, paperclip maximizers, etc) Why not stipulate that the Flying Spaghetti Monster oversees the elections like an FEC commissioner? It is equally rational: the only difference is…

Because believing the FSM oversees the electrons doesn't help you build new things and demonstrably increase your understanding of the world.

Re: Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

#49
post #40

Anyone else think this is a huge non-story? Like, of course there's going to be oxygen in distant galaxies. Why wouldn't there be? It would be far more interesting if there wasn't oxygen in distant galaxies.

In my eyes even finding life is semi a non-story. Or like obviously there's going to be life even intelligent life since it spawned here. Any idea that we're unique is silly we're just emergent phenomena of initial conditions.

As one emergent phenomena of initial conditions to another, allow me to say 'hi'. Hi.

Re: Oxygen atoms discovered in most distant known galaxy

#50

Anyone else think this is a huge non-story? Like, of course there's going to be oxygen in distant galaxies. Why wouldn't there be? It would be far more interesting if there wasn't oxygen in distant galaxies.

The headline is a non-story. Us being wrong about how we thought galaxies form is, in fact, an interesting story. From the article:

"The results show the galaxy has formed very rapidly and is also maturing rapidly, adding to a growing body of evidence that the formation of galaxies happens much faster than was expected."

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