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America stopped caring how poor kids do in school

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Re: America stopped caring how poor kids do in school

#41
post #7
post #2

The US stopped caring about truth, justice, and basic humanity. Caring about people is not in the cards at all.

I was blessedly slow to learn this, but a significant chunk of the population is motivated by hate.

>motivated by hate.

motivated by the love of money, the root of all evil.

Re: America stopped caring how poor kids do in school

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why educate poor kids? The exceptional will rise to the top regardless or emigrate to the US as long as we make it attractive to anyway. If all that matters is GDP and relative geopolitical strength of course.

So that they can become contributors to society. Economically, they still won’t be net contributors, only the top few percent are, but you still want them to contribute to the best of their ability.

"I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops." - Stephen Jay Gould

Developing talent is necessary, and many don't have the circumstances for their talent to be visible.

Re: America stopped caring how poor kids do in school

#43
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that they can become contributors to society. Economically, they still won’t be net contributors, only the top few percent are, but you still want them to contribute to the best of their ability.

"I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops." - Stephen Jay Gould Developing talent is necessary, and many don't have the circumstances for their talent to be visible.

Maybe 100 years ago, or in remote villages in developing countries.

In America there's such an abundance of opportunity that talented people generally aren't going to be constrained by anything other than ambition. Certainly not by education.

Many of histories famous scholars had no formal education whatsoever, they were autodidactics.

Re: America stopped caring how poor kids do in school

#44
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that they can become contributors to society. Economically, they still won’t be net contributors, only the top few percent are, but you still want them to contribute to the best of their ability.

"I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops." - Stephen Jay Gould Developing talent is necessary, and many don't have the circumstances for their talent to be visible.

That's an illustration of the worldview where you only care about the exceptional in action. There has to be an interest in having a healthy and enjoyable society among all ranks, and care about more than just cutting edge science and engineering.

Re: America stopped caring how poor kids do in school

#45
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops." - Stephen Jay Gould Developing talent is necessary, and many don't have the circumstances for their talent to be visible.

That's an illustration of the worldview where you only care about the exceptional in action. There has to be an interest in having a healthy and enjoyable society among all ranks, and care about more than just cutting edge science and engineering.

I agree, but I was under the impression we were discussing the finding of exceptional talent.

Re: America stopped caring how poor kids do in school

#46
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No Child Left Behind incentivised teaching to the level of the lowest denominator. That's a not just a problem in education. Lowest denominator thinking is endemic throughout America. Don’t be surprised if countries that seek excellence, like China, eventually have economic growth that outpaces America for this reason alone.

Seeking excellence and demanding ideological conformity at the risk of prison don't seem compatible to me.

Are you talking about china or the US?

Re: America stopped caring how poor kids do in school

#47
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeking excellence and demanding ideological conformity at the risk of prison don't seem compatible to me.

Are you talking about china or the US?

That doesn't stand up to scrutiny, the US is famously politically and ideologically divided. I understand the impulse to say "no, you" but we can do better than that here.

Re: America stopped caring how poor kids do in school

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Progressivism is really a form of religion, disguised as a political system. No more than all political (and otherwise ideological or values-based) systems are; there's no “disguise” in involved.

I think this sentiment gets at a more interesting idea, which is the increasing convergence/conflation of government and society in the minds of participants. That is to say, government is the primary, if not only avenue for voicing and acting on personal/cultural values.

Re: America stopped caring how poor kids do in school

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the amount a parent can care and show interest in their children's education could be correlated to financial freedom?

Maybe depends on how poor? My experience was even poor parents were able to care. But I think more extreme cases could be different - like if they’re both rarely at home and they don’t have others to help raise the kids, then I think the family culture doesn’t really exist.

Ahhh that's very interesting. I'm glad you've experienced that! I asked because I had mostly seen the latter, and in the few cases there were parents who had the capacity, they had been so soured by their own experiences in schools they didn't see the value in it for their children.

I hope one day we can solve the problems for both cases.

Re: America stopped caring how poor kids do in school

#50
post #5

> I don’t want to blame everything bad that’s happened in American education on the little-noted 2015 Every Student Succeeds Act (ESSA). Before that was No Child Left Behind, which due to perverse incentives resulted in us being taught at the speed of the slowest student. Wouldn't surprise me if this is their theory here too but most of the article is behind a paywall.

Has anyone figured out where the mandate to eliminate academic 'tracking' came from?
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