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Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

theguardian.com

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Re: Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

#41

Post by whimsicalism »

rkagerer wrote: post #19

Google used AI to summarize the ~200 questions its employees posed ahead of this meeting regarding its DEI and AI policies. The final two paragraphs of the article are telling: The third-most-popular question employees asked was why the AI summaries were so bad. “The AI summaries of questions on Ask are terrible. Can we go back to answering the questions people actually asked?” it read. I thought summarization was a…

AI has become political and Google is a very political company nowadays, i wouldn’t take this at face value

Re: Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

#42

Post by MrMcCall »

Analemma_ wrote: post #15
frognumber wrote: post #12

I usually evaluate people based on how they behave by their own stated values and codes. It's been a good rule. What's been amazing to me is how skin-deep the stated values across the tech industry were. Virtually every executive is behaving in ways they would fire their employees for just a few months ago. The executives have no moral compass as human beings. I believed this to be the case before, since the people I…

It's more-or-less impossible to become a sufficiently-senior executive at a sufficiently-large company without being a psychopath. You should have a baseline assumption that all executives at large corporations have no values whatsoever beyond doing what benefits them personally, you'll be a lot less surprised at their behavior if you do.

What about large tech funding orgs?

;-)

Re: Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

#43

Post by pitched »

JCM9 wrote: post #13

The AI items are concerning. The DEI stuff though is gone and isn’t coming back. The concept was well intentioned but, quite ironically, these programs turned into a hub of biased discriminatory behavior and it was becoming increasingly hard to paint them as anything else.

DEI did feel a lot like paying off debt by getting a new credit card. Equal competition doesn’t mean equal footing though. We will eventually need something to replace it and I hope that doesn’t go worse.

Re: Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

#44

Post by sympil »

Jensson wrote: post #18
knallfrosch wrote: post #14

I always wonder how they do it. These spineless corporate suits. One month they're shoving DEI down your throat ("underrepresented, marginalized"), next month they're killing these programs and writing that they have always hired the "best" people for the job. Obviously, some people of the organization are different, but not all. How do they do it? Just treat it like a job and do whatever the bag full of money demand…

How did democrat politicians go from saying we shouldn't legalize gay marriage to then saying you are a horrible homophobe if you are against it in a couple of years? The answer is the same, some people just say what they think will give them the most power and advantages. If denying gay rights gives them votes? "Of course they shouldn't have any!" Wait, no, gay rights give votes?? "Oh, yeah anyone who doesn't give t…

In 2004 John Kerry lost the election due to two things. One of them was his support for gay marriage being legal. Stupid commericals like this one were made:

https://youtu.be/4AzLrn5JVIo?si=bYtAbriIbp0AVrxP

Obama was adamant that he did not support legislation to legalize gay marriage. When SCOTUS legalized it he was caught off guard but he and other Democrats were able to then fully embrace the issue. The nation’s view on the topic rapidly changed and now it is a nonissue for most Republicans.

Re: Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

#45

Post by user14159265 »

This is also a rug pull for many international researchers working at google. How should they feel helping to build weapon systems for a country that openly threatens their home countries or close allies? If google didn't start with "don't be evil" and didn't continue to pledge not use use AI for weapons, this would be different. This is as bad as having an "Open" for-profit company. Let's see which of the big labs remain attractive non-US citizens.

Re: Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

#46

Post by wyldfire »

zombiwoof wrote: post #38
sympil wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is DEI discriminatory? Do you know of studies that have statistics to back up the claim?

I can tell you at Apple where I worked for almost a decade in the last year I see teams 99% made up of DEI hires. Apple should share the data.

I'm genuinely curious how you know which ones are which. Is it indicated like on their badge?

Re: Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

#47

Post by sympil »

zombiwoof wrote: post #38
sympil wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is DEI discriminatory? Do you know of studies that have statistics to back up the claim?

I can tell you at Apple where I worked for almost a decade in the last year I see teams 99% made up of DEI hires. Apple should share the data.

Being a DEI hire does not make the hire discriminatory. I think you don’t understand the issue.

I gather you assume any person of color or female hire is a “DEI” hire and by that you mean someone who isn’t qualified. This assumption is quite stupid.

Re: Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

#48

Post by weikju »

rkagerer wrote: post #19

Google used AI to summarize the ~200 questions its employees posed ahead of this meeting regarding its DEI and AI policies. The final two paragraphs of the article are telling: The third-most-popular question employees asked was why the AI summaries were so bad. “The AI summaries of questions on Ask are terrible. Can we go back to answering the questions people actually asked?” it read. I thought summarization was a…

> I thought summarization was a task AI was considered good at.

I found this article was a good explanation why this isn’t the case:

https://ea.rna.nl/2024/05/27/when-chatgpt-summarises-it-actu...

TLDR: it all comes back to the same principle: LLMs are predicting words based on their training. Which means they are not actually summarizing ideas from documents (or whatever other task we give them).

Re: Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

#49

Post by kevingadd »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #22
JCM9 wrote: post #13

The AI items are concerning. The DEI stuff though is gone and isn’t coming back. The concept was well intentioned but, quite ironically, these programs turned into a hub of biased discriminatory behavior and it was becoming increasingly hard to paint them as anything else.

They are also now illegal by executive order which is the main reason companies are getting rid of them. I agree with you they were biased but companies don't care about that

Executive orders aren't laws

Re: Google defends scrapping AI pledges and DEI goals in all-staff meeting

#50

Post by sympil »

whimsicalism wrote: post #39
sympil wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is DEI discriminatory? Do you know of studies that have statistics to back up the claim?

its preferential hiring or at minimum recruiting/sourcing on the basis of race, its discriminatory by definition

DEI is not about preferential hiring. It’s the opposite. It’s about broadening the perspectives so that one group that has enjoyed historical preferential hiring no longer gets preferential treatment.
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