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Saying goodbye to FFmpegKit

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Re: Saying goodbye to FFmpegKit

#41

Post by bayindirh »

cm2187 wrote: post #35
amiga386 wrote: post #9

> However, in 2023, MPEG LA was acquired by Via-LA, and everything changed. When I reached out to Via-LA in late 2024 to confirm FFmpegKit’s position under their terms, I received no response. The real reason. Greedy bastards, and the risk of your business being set on fire by greedy bastards, even if they don't have a right to anything - they can still threaten to waste your time and money and offer a shakedown inst…

From the article, Via-LA just didn't respond to the author, that doesn't really say anything about their position. It's a bit premature to call them greedy bastard. The author is doing this out of an abundance of caution, not in response of a legal action.

Considering that MPEG-LA and in turn Via-LA only provides non-commercial licenses with the hardware which can encode/decode the codecs under their umbrella, and (Via-LA) stays silent on a matter so they can snipe people from the distance, they are the de-facto greedy ones.

ref: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42736254

Re: Saying goodbye to FFmpegKit

#42

Post by mjmsmith »

rwmj wrote: post #14
Igrom wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And clicking on a link to GitHub takes no time at all. Is there anything wrong with that approach? Furthermore, I feel that you shouldn't blame the author for omissions if their post is shared outside of the intended audience.

We could make every reader do the extra work, or the author could write a few words once.

He could title that section Why #3.

Re: Saying goodbye to FFmpegKit

#43

Post by dylan604 »

duped wrote: post #32
doawoo wrote: post #18

Having dealt with MPEG-LA before, it makes me so wildly angry that a company composed of nothing but lawyers can suck money out of any product that wants to use a widely supported, arguably critical video codec. The process for reporting to them for sales is also horrible. Uploading excel spreadsheets to an ASP.NET backend that's barely holding together. It's minimal effort from them to leverage all possible legal ac…

I'm no lawyer but I feel like a company shouldn't have standing to contest a patent if they can't demonstrate damages, like a product losing sales because someone else is selling a competing product using technology under their patent. And "we paid for something and want ROI" are not damages. There's no legal right to profit from an investment. You gotta use it or lose it.

In this case though, licensing their code is their use of the product. Don't let your ire of patent trolls lump everyone together. I'm not saying MPEG/Via-LA are angels, but they own rights to code that is used by millions while holding active licenses with people using that code.

Re: Saying goodbye to FFmpegKit

#44

Post by echelon »

chefandy wrote: post #24
doawoo wrote: post #18

Having dealt with MPEG-LA before, it makes me so wildly angry that a company composed of nothing but lawyers can suck money out of any product that wants to use a widely supported, arguably critical video codec. The process for reporting to them for sales is also horrible. Uploading excel spreadsheets to an ASP.NET backend that's barely holding together. It's minimal effort from them to leverage all possible legal ac…

As an artist, this sort of shit makes me apoplectic. I’m frustrated that society has no way to compensate people that do creative work for a living other than the same mechanism that virii like this extract money from other people’s work using a paper turnstile and heavy penalties for violations. And between the two kinds of entities, only one realistically even has the significant resources needed to engage the mech…

> I’m frustrated that society has no way to compensate people that do creative work for a living other than the same mechanism that virii like this extract money from other people’s work using a paper turnstile and heavy penalties for violations.

Steam, YouTube, Instagram, Patreon, BandCamp, commissions... The creator economy is booming and is on the rise. I've seen some metrics say it's got a 40% CAGR.

MrBeast, PsychicPebbles, VivziePop, Joel Haver - all made brands for themselves. The currency is personal brand. Most of the creators I follow these days are indies, not big studios.

But even excepting that, you can always work for a big studio if you're not interested in the additional headache of working for yourself and building a personal brand. Gaming, film, and music are huge and there are companies hiring in these spaces.

Re: Saying goodbye to FFmpegKit

#45

Post by jcranmer »

amiga386 wrote: post #31
HeatrayEnjoyer wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do French courts enforce patents differently?

France was one of the first countries in Europe to ban software patents, in 1968. France is also a party to the European Patent Convention, which specifically states that programs for computers are not patentable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patents_under_the_Eur... Software patents are mainly a US-only thing.

There are over 300 French patents in the H.264 license pool, and the very first one looks like a software patent to me, and I suspect most of the rest are the software patents that you confidently claim don't exist.

Re: Saying goodbye to FFmpegKit

#46

Post by doawoo »

echelon wrote: post #44
chefandy wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an artist, this sort of shit makes me apoplectic. I’m frustrated that society has no way to compensate people that do creative work for a living other than the same mechanism that virii like this extract money from other people’s work using a paper turnstile and heavy penalties for violations. And between the two kinds of entities, only one realistically even has the significant resources needed to engage the mech…

> I’m frustrated that society has no way to compensate people that do creative work for a living other than the same mechanism that virii like this extract money from other people’s work using a paper turnstile and heavy penalties for violations. Steam, YouTube, Instagram, Patreon, BandCamp, commissions... The creator economy is booming and is on the rise. I've seen some metrics say it's got a 40% CAGR. MrBeast, Psyc…

> all made brands for themselves

Ah there's the magic word! You shouldn't have to be a "brand"... the people you listed are not who I would call "independent".

Capitalism is the root of evil to all this. Sorry.

Re: Saying goodbye to FFmpegKit

#47

Post by DannyBee »

duped wrote: post #32
doawoo wrote: post #18

Having dealt with MPEG-LA before, it makes me so wildly angry that a company composed of nothing but lawyers can suck money out of any product that wants to use a widely supported, arguably critical video codec. The process for reporting to them for sales is also horrible. Uploading excel spreadsheets to an ASP.NET backend that's barely holding together. It's minimal effort from them to leverage all possible legal ac…

I'm no lawyer but I feel like a company shouldn't have standing to contest a patent if they can't demonstrate damages, like a product losing sales because someone else is selling a competing product using technology under their patent. And "we paid for something and want ROI" are not damages. There's no legal right to profit from an investment. You gotta use it or lose it.

Unfortunately, patent rights are quite literally the right to exclude others from doing things. That's it.

Patent owners don't even have the right to make the invention themselves (because it may infringe on other patents).

So your problem is fairly foundational.

Re: Saying goodbye to FFmpegKit

#48

Post by somat »

amiga386 wrote: post #31
HeatrayEnjoyer wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do French courts enforce patents differently?

France was one of the first countries in Europe to ban software patents, in 1968. France is also a party to the European Patent Convention, which specifically states that programs for computers are not patentable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patents_under_the_Eur... Software patents are mainly a US-only thing.

Which is why you always present your patent as if it were a mechanical machine. Then in court you need to prove how their mechanism of instructions for a general purpose solver(software) is the same as your patent mechanism.

This is sort of a half-joke, But honestly I would not have a problem with software patents if they had to be filed in this manner. The problem I have is with patents that are "existing device (on a computer)" as if putting it on a computer was novel.

I feel that patents are a critical legal device. I think having economic exploitation protection for your novel mechanism is an important thing. However there are enough people exploiting the patent system itself that it does need some reform. However I am uncertain what that reform should be. A stricter interpretation of novel? a tighter interpretation of infringement? Honestly I am worried about the law of unintended consequences here.

Re: Saying goodbye to FFmpegKit

#49

Post by swatcoder »

rwmj wrote: post #39
swatcoder wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternately, if you're reading an article about something and realize it assumes familiarity that you don't have, stop reading it or follow your curiosity. The person who wrote the article did so for the audience of people that follow them, who would already be familiar with FFmpegkit: there would be no point to describing it because the name would be de facto known. Because the web is open, they don't have control o…

I'm not sure if I'm interested in ffmpegkit or not (because it wasn't described), but I am interested in the dynamics of open source communities, so stopping reading the article would miss the point for me. Plus I guess as a writer you want people to read your stuff. Obviously if you don't, then don't follow all the usual rules of good journalism like the inverted pyramid, which is what I'm describing here.

This wasn't journalism; it was an address written for a personally invested audience. And even most journalism, as most writing, is written with mind with to some specific vision of its audience.

That you happened to come across it is just a coincidence. What you choose to do with it is up to you, and as someone who wasn't already aware of FFmpegKit and therefore not among the addressees, presumably of no particular bearing to the author.

Re: Saying goodbye to FFmpegKit

#50

Post by echelon »

doawoo wrote: post #46
echelon wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m frustrated that society has no way to compensate people that do creative work for a living other than the same mechanism that virii like this extract money from other people’s work using a paper turnstile and heavy penalties for violations. Steam, YouTube, Instagram, Patreon, BandCamp, commissions... The creator economy is booming and is on the rise. I've seen some metrics say it's got a 40% CAGR. MrBeast, Psyc…

> all made brands for themselves Ah there's the magic word! You shouldn't have to be a "brand"... the people you listed are not who I would call "independent". Capitalism is the root of evil to all this. Sorry.

Every single indie band I like is a brand.

Pardon my French, but get the stick out of your eye and lighten up a little bit about this.

Not everything should be "kumbaya, my lord" neighborhood arts and crafts, string beads, hillbilly woodworking, or stay at home mom Etsy finds. You can enjoy things that have their own distinctive brand identity. Where the artist becomes inseparable from the art.

Web comics, their own brands. Fan fiction authors, their own brands and followings. YouTubers and Twitch streamers, even the smallest of the small - duh. Brand. Bloggers. Columnists. Photographers. Even illustrators have their own brands. They don't want to be generic fungible goods. They want to be unique. That's what it is to be an artist and the name of the artist carries recognition, accolade, and following.

So sorry there's an element of marketing and self promotion involved, but that's the name of the business for everyone. If you don't like it, you can work for somebody else and follow their brand guidelines and direction.

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