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Advanced Magnet Manufacturing Begins in the United States

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: Advanced Magnet Manufacturing Begins in the United States

#41

Post by ahartmetz »

ars wrote: post #29
adrian_b wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that they are commercializing anything. I see on their site now that they are building a plant that is expected to produce 5 (five) tons of magnets per year (compared to 1500 t/year for the plant discussed in the article or with 25000 t/year for the biggest of the around 300 Chinese plants). Such a small-scale production might be enough only to make samples to distribute to potential customers, to convince th…

Doesn't this shoot them in the foot? Once they get it working they have less time left on the patent.

They could probably patent the way that actually works.

Re: Advanced Magnet Manufacturing Begins in the United States

#43

Post by BLKNSLVR »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #39
mikewarot wrote: post #26

Perhaps it was a bad idea to let it stop happening in the US[1] in the first place? I have acquaintances who told me about this more than a decade ago. We thought it was stupid to let the production lines go then... and obviously, we were right. [1] https://www.counterpunch.org/2006/04/07/the-saga-of-magneque...

Its easy to throw around words like “stupid” on the internet, especially with hindsight, but how could it have been anything but a complex decision estimating values for many variables? Would they have been able to hit a competitive price while maintaining environmental regs and paying a domestic workforce, would china end up the only other supplier in the world? Can government subsidies be counted on to last multipl…

Strong disagree, this was obvious if not from the very start, then as soon as the first company that relocated manufacturing started making ridiculous profits.

Keeping the retail prices the same whilst more-than-decimating the manufacturing cost? How could it not be obvious that anyone and everyone would follow once there was a proof of concept.

When capitalism is measured on incredibly short term performance, with no consideration of long term sustainability or national interest or maintenance of national skills and capabilities. This has been going on since well before the world wide web became accessible to most Western households.

Nike started doing it in the 70s and they weren't the first.

I've long been confused* to why there was no legislation to prevent "local" companies from giving away the keys to their kingdoms to foreign countries.

*Not really, politicians are just as short-term motivated as business owners.

It made sense. But the chickens are now coming home to roost, and they're shitting all over the place and the unprecedented profits have been spent on fancy plastic toys (that are now mostly landfill) instead of any kind of preparation for the inevitable tsunami of chicken shit.

Re: Advanced Magnet Manufacturing Begins in the United States

#44

Post by BLKNSLVR »

throwaway422432 wrote: post #31
ggm wrote: post #23

We're not looking for autarky, we're looking for strategic assurances and avoidance of dependency with adversarial consequences. It annoys me economic arguments delayed work to expand Australian rare earth sources, it would have been good not to get caught behind "cheaper is best" decision logic. The same logic shut down our microelectronics industry, local manufacturing, strategic policy in oil reserves and refining…

It's happening but slowly. Lynas Rare Earths who are the largest miner and processor outside of China are in the initial stages of building a plant in Texas (which includes funding from the DoD). They currently have plants in Kalgoorlie and Malaysia, but not end-to-end making magnets. Iluka have also secured the additional funding required for a processing plant in Australia and have deals with other miners for feed…

So if I get in at your loss level, then I'll always be less down than you.

"Less down" seems to be my preferred position.

Re: Advanced Magnet Manufacturing Begins in the United States

#45

Post by BLKNSLVR »

Sporktacular wrote: post #32

This article just kind of assumes the reader should prefer US firms succeed in making these magnets over Chinese firms. I'm not sure why I should prefer that if China do it cheaper and better. Some nationalistic readers or those concerned about US national security and supply chains might care. Or maybe the US should just maintain better trade relations, and vote to do so.

It's definitely rewriting of history / priorities based on the current political climate.

30 years ago the opposite was celebrated as the saviour of American capitalism (by short term thinking people who are probably billionaires now, and therefore, as individuals, insulated against any of the '30 years later' repercussions).

The US is going to need to naturalise all of its illegal immigrants to have a chance at ramping up local manufacturing.

Re: Advanced Magnet Manufacturing Begins in the United States

#46

Post by yardie »

gkanai wrote: post #33

Time and time again we see the US moving production of some key product or material overseas only to regret that decision a number of years later. It happens over and over again. Market forces are great, but should be ignored in key sectors that are important for national security. That goes for rare earth minerals or shipbuilding or key supplies for munitions or PPE that we needed during the pandemic, (etc.)

The free market will always chose to go to the places for the cheapest material and labor. There is no strategy to it. But, there are some industries the US have placed strategic value on and will subsidize no matter the cost.

- USPS - literally written into the Constitution

- Passenger rail - Amtrak keeps pudding along even though financially it doesn’t make sense.

- Merchant marines - cargo is cheap. And cheaper in flag countries with lax labor rules. Yet, we maintain a expensive flotilla.

Re: Advanced Magnet Manufacturing Begins in the United States

#47

Post by doctorplop »

brcmthrowaway wrote: post #37

Wait, those strong neodymium magnets are only produced in China?!

There is a European producer, the German/Finnish VAC Group. But they also get their raw materials from China (I think).

Neodymium magnets are fascinating: they have enabled much smaller and more efficient elevator engines, used as undulators in synchroton x-ray sources, and many other places.

Re: Advanced Magnet Manufacturing Begins in the United States

#48

Post by shireboy »

sQL_inject wrote: post #42
shireboy wrote: post #3

It is an attractive industry, but sometimes can be repulsive.

You're way outside your field buddy, stick to something else.

I’d like to. The whole field is in flux and it’s nearly impossible to find balance.

Re: Advanced Magnet Manufacturing Begins in the United States

#49

Post by shireboy »

sigpwned wrote: post #16
shireboy wrote: post #3

It is an attractive industry, but sometimes can be repulsive.

You don't have a monopoley on humor, you know.

I know. I like to think my compass points my humor in the right direction, but maybe it got turned around.

Re: Advanced Magnet Manufacturing Begins in the United States

#50

Post by Electric_Genie »

adrian_b wrote: post #14
pfdietz wrote: post #9

More interesting to me is Niron Magnetics, mentioned in the article, which is commercializing magnets based on a particular phase of iron nitride. https://www.nironmagnetics.com/

I doubt that they are commercializing anything. I see on their site now that they are building a plant that is expected to produce 5 (five) tons of magnets per year (compared to 1500 t/year for the plant discussed in the article or with 25000 t/year for the biggest of the around 300 Chinese plants). Such a small-scale production might be enough only to make samples to distribute to potential customers, to convince th…

The problem with iron nitride is, and always has been, low coercivity. Niron hopes that GM can help them figure out a way to design a traction motor that has high performance even with low coercivity magnets. The fact that there are no such motors using iron-nitride magnets suggests that those efforts haven't succeeded yet. https://spectrum.ieee.org/permanent-magnet-motor
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