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Open source AI: Red Hat's point-of-view

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41–50 of 71 posts

Re: Open source AI: Red Hat's point-of-view

#41
post #39
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wrong. Everything in RHEL is downstream from CentOS Stream - all of the sources are published there. The only differences are a handful of trademarks. >If the paying customers republish the source, then RedHat closes the account. Even if you ignore the above and think only about the official sources provided direct from the customer portal, it's still not a violation IMO. Because that's not a restriction on h…

> Everything in RHEL is downstream from CentOS Stream - all of the sources are published there. IIRC thats incorrect, RHEL gets some fixes before CentOS Stream.

They may get published to RHEL first in the case of embargo'd security fixes (and not by long), but the point is that the sources are still published to CentOS Stream.

Re: Open source AI: Red Hat's point-of-view

#42
post #33
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> TL;DR - Red Hat views the minimum criteria for open source AI as open source-licensed model weights combined with open source software components. That's not open source! I'm going to call this "Wizard of Ozzing". You give away the spectacle of magic tricks, but none of the science and machinery to do it yourself. You're still hiding it all behind fake virtue signalling. Open source in AI is open weights, open trai…

Red Hat is on your team and you are criticizing them for not doing enough, why not side with red hat against companies that don't even publish shit and still consider there models to be open? The prevailing strategy for most companies is to publish some bullshit (like a cli or a model downloader) and call it open source, the bar is waaay low and we are just trying to raise it a couple of inches, it's not helpful to g…

The term "open" in AI is being muddied and redefined. We shouldn't stand for that in any of its manifestations, lest we find ourselves in a world where "open" means completely dependent upon the giant foundation model companies.

This definition of "open source" for AI must not be allowed to take hold. It's pernicious.

Weights are a compiled binary. Encumbered freeware.

Re: Open source AI: Red Hat's point-of-view

#43
post #36
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vanguard "owns" a huge chunk of everything. Vanguard runs index funds, most peoples retirements are vanguard buying small shares of an index fund representing all the big companies on the stock exchange

Also they simultaneously hold the ownership rights as well as equivalent owenrship liabilities, so they own shit squat in net terms (excpet maybe their management fees).

It’s even weirder than that!

Vanguard has an odd corporate structure where it’s owned by the funds that it manages, so it’s effectively a co-op owned by its customers.

Re: Open source AI: Red Hat's point-of-view

#44
post #11

Disappointing that red hat is basically validating open weights as open source, and excusing it by saying this: > The majority of improvements and enhancements to AI models now taking place in the community do not involve access to or manipulation of the original training data. Rather, they are the result of modifications to model weights or a process of fine tuning which can also serve to adjust model performance. W…

It's not exactly practical to hand out the training material given the sheer quantity of data we're talking about.

GPL v2 and earlier let you charge distribution costs (v3's language is more complicated). In the late 80s you could order an Emacs tape from the FSF for $150, which is about $430 today!

Re: Open source AI: Red Hat's point-of-view

#45
To me, the ML situation looks roughly like this.

(1) Model weights are something like a bytecode blob. You can run it in a conformant interpreter, and be able to do inference.

(2) Things like llama.cpp are the "bytecode interpreter" part, something that can load the weights and run inference.

(3) The training setup is like a custom "compiler" which turns training data to the "bytecode" of the model weights.

(4) The actual training data is like the "source code" for the model, the input of the training "compiler".

Currently (2) is well-served by a number of open-source offerings. (1) is what is usually released when a new model is released. (1) + (2) give the ability to run inference independently.

AFAICT, Red Hat suggests that an "open-source ML model" must include (1), (2), and (3), so that the way the model has been trained is also open and reusable. I would say that it's great for scientific / applied progress, but I don't think it's "open source" proper. You get a binary blob and a compiler that can produce it and patch it, but you can't reproduce it the way the authors did.

Releasing the training set, the (4), to my mind, would be crucial for the model to be actually "open source" in the way an open-source C program is.

I understand that the training set is massive, may contain a lot of data that can't be easily released publicly but that were licensed for the training purposes, and that training from scratch may cost millions, so releasing the (4) is very often infeasible.

I still think than (1) + (2) + (3) should not be called "open-source", because the source is not open. We need a different term, like "open structure" or something. It's definitely more open than something that's only available via an API, or as just weights, but not completely open.

Re: Open source AI: Red Hat's point-of-view

#46
post #45

To me, the ML situation looks roughly like this. (1) Model weights are something like a bytecode blob. You can run it in a conformant interpreter, and be able to do inference. (2) Things like llama.cpp are the "bytecode interpreter" part, something that can load the weights and run inference. (3) The training setup is like a custom "compiler" which turns training data to the "bytecode" of the model weights. (4) The a…

It is really just “open use” with detailed defined by the license type (MIT, etc)

Re: Open source AI: Red Hat's point-of-view

#47
> More than three decades ago, Red Hat saw the potential of how open source development and licenses can create better software to fuel IT innovation. Thirty-million lines of code later, Linux not only developed to become the most successful open source software but the most successful software to date.

This seems to conflate Red Hat and Linux, as well as try to equate Red Hat with open-source. Red Hat is Linux, but Linux is not Red Hat, especially now that Red Hat has decided to restrict access to the RHEL source (https://www.itworldcanada.com/article/red-hat-decision-turns...).

And a pet grammatical peeve of mine:

> ... in some respects they serve a similar function to code.

I see this everywhere now -- IMHO it should be "... serve a function similar to code." Doesn't the original grate on your ear?

Also this is a Turing-test bot detector -- bots don't use this weird grammatical construction, only humans do.

Re: Open source AI: Red Hat's point-of-view

#48
post #45

To me, the ML situation looks roughly like this. (1) Model weights are something like a bytecode blob. You can run it in a conformant interpreter, and be able to do inference. (2) Things like llama.cpp are the "bytecode interpreter" part, something that can load the weights and run inference. (3) The training setup is like a custom "compiler" which turns training data to the "bytecode" of the model weights. (4) The a…

[dead]

Re: Open source AI: Red Hat's point-of-view

#49
post #45

To me, the ML situation looks roughly like this. (1) Model weights are something like a bytecode blob. You can run it in a conformant interpreter, and be able to do inference. (2) Things like llama.cpp are the "bytecode interpreter" part, something that can load the weights and run inference. (3) The training setup is like a custom "compiler" which turns training data to the "bytecode" of the model weights. (4) The a…

It is really just “open use” with detailed defined by the license type (MIT, etc)

It's more than just use (inference), it does open some otherwise secret sauce of the training. It looks like there's no existing word / notion to exactly pinpoint this level of openness.

Re: Open source AI: Red Hat's point-of-view

#50
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> TL;DR - Red Hat views the minimum criteria for open source AI as open source-licensed model weights combined with open source software components. That's not open source! I'm going to call this "Wizard of Ozzing". You give away the spectacle of magic tricks, but none of the science and machinery to do it yourself. You're still hiding it all behind fake virtue signalling. Open source in AI is open weights, open trai…

You have the preferred form for making modifications, and the relevant permissions to now get in trouble for it. If you actually go look at the open source or few software definitions, that's what they're about - being able to make modifications. Just like an open source software project doesn't need a public record of the rationale for all architectural decisions in order to qualify.

Open source means being able to verify how the sausage is made. Getting a premade sausage and saying “oh you can still eat it and spice it up however you like” isn’t that.

I’m happy open weights exist, but it is not truly open source.

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