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Why Children's Books?

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Re: Why Children's Books?

#41

Post by dr-detroit »

fergie wrote: post #37
graemep wrote: post #20

I think she places too much importance on this: "British children’s books have often taught other truths – that the best thing you can be is white, upper or middle class, and if you are a girl, quiet. " Firstly, there are many exceptions. For example, Aravis in CS Lewis's The Horse and His Boy is neither white nor remotely quiet - she is aristocratic. The Telmarine descended characters in the later books in the serie…

When I was at school in Scotland in the 80s it was a recognised problem that too much of the available childrens literature centred on wealthy kids who went to boarding school. Its ironic therefore that when an impoverished Scottish single mother, JK Rowling, wrote the most successful childrens books of all time in the ´90s, that they centred on wealthy kids who went to boarding school.

[dead]

Re: Why Children's Books?

#42

Post by marliechiller »

Ichthypresbyter wrote: post #26
nindalf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not convinced by the author's thesis. But I'm also not convinced by your defence of Narnia. It's 4 white British middle class kids (Peter, Susan, Edmund and Lucy) who have the privilege of being sent to the country during a dangerous time. I'm happy that you were able to identify with these characters. But for the many, many people who prefer to read stories about people like themselves and can't identify with P…

>the privilege of being sent to the country during a dangerous time. Children of all social classes were evacuated- the slum child evacuated to a prosperous country farmhouse is practically a trope, while some children of wealthy families stayed in London. The only thing that decided whether children went or not was their parents' choice. Though the Pevensies are relatively privileged in that they have a (EDIT: famil…

Indeed - see "Goodnight Mister Tom" for an example of a poor child that was evacuated

Re: Why Children's Books?

#43

Post by sersi »

nindalf wrote: post #30
graemep wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any reasonable reader would conclude that the Pevensie children are the main characters in that series. The main characters even in books they do not appear in (The Magicians Nephew and The Silver Chair) or appear in only as minor characters (The Horse and His Boy and The Last Battle)? The older two Pevensies are only main characters in two books. > Frankly your comment sounds like cope. You so badly want to identi…

My Dear Lucy, I wrote this story for you, but when I began it I had not realised that girls grow quicker than books. As a result you are already too old for fairy tales, and by the time it is printed and bound you will be older still. But some day you will be old enough to start reading fairy tales again. You can then take it down from some upper shelf, dust it, and tell me what you think of it. I shall probably be t…

Yes, you're right about that specific dedication to Lewis' god daughter. But, you don't address the poster's point:

> The main characters even in books they do not appear in (The Magicians Nephew and The Silver Chair) or appear in only as minor characters (The Horse and His Boy and The Last Battle)?

He does have a point and you're not answering it at all.

Re: Why Children's Books?

#44

Post by sersi »

nindalf wrote: post #32
dambi0 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know that describing evacuation as a privilege for middle class children is strictly accurate.

Evacuation to a private residence belonging to an uncle. A mansion at that.

Sorry but your memory fails you. The professor is not their uncle. He is not related to them.

However he himself stayed with an uncle when he was a child (in The Magician's Nephew)

Re: Why Children's Books?

#45

Post by bwb »

nindalf wrote: post #23
graemep wrote: post #20

I think she places too much importance on this: "British children’s books have often taught other truths – that the best thing you can be is white, upper or middle class, and if you are a girl, quiet. " Firstly, there are many exceptions. For example, Aravis in CS Lewis's The Horse and His Boy is neither white nor remotely quiet - she is aristocratic. The Telmarine descended characters in the later books in the serie…

I am not convinced by the author's thesis. But I'm also not convinced by your defence of Narnia. It's 4 white British middle class kids (Peter, Susan, Edmund and Lucy) who have the privilege of being sent to the country during a dangerous time. I'm happy that you were able to identify with these characters. But for the many, many people who prefer to read stories about people like themselves and can't identify with P…

I grew up lower middle class and none of these thoughts even entered my mind. What did was the amazing story, world, etc…

I identified with them, the Beaver family, the white witch, etc.

Do you struggle to identify with humans who do not perfectly match your income or life? Is that how most of your friends are?

I might be the weird one here but I identify with all kinds of characters in books…

Re: Why Children's Books?

#46

Post by bombcar »

amiga386 wrote: post #39
nindalf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not convinced by the author's thesis. But I'm also not convinced by your defence of Narnia. It's 4 white British middle class kids (Peter, Susan, Edmund and Lucy) who have the privilege of being sent to the country during a dangerous time. I'm happy that you were able to identify with these characters. But for the many, many people who prefer to read stories about people like themselves and can't identify with P…

> privilege You live in a city the Nazis are going to bomb. Your family and your home is almost certainly going to be blasted to smithereens. The government has evacuated you - unaccompanied - to some strangers, and it doesn't care who these strangers are, so long as they volunteer to put you up. https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/the-evacuated-children-of-the... That is not privilege. Privilege is being able to sit behi…

They also got the privilege of all dying together in a bombing raid on the train.

Re: Why Children's Books?

#47

Post by sersi »

HenryBemis wrote: post #13

> It wasn’t until 1744 that John Newbery published what is generally thought to be the first children’s book: A Little Pretty Pocket-Book, Intended for the Instruction and Amusement of Little Master Tommy and Pretty Miss Polly … The Use of which will infallibly make Tommy a good Boy, and Polly a good Girl. Noteworthy!! (imho) and you can find the book below. https://archive.org/details/bim_eighteenth-century_a-little…

I really wish the scan was better quality. Extremely hard to read.

Re: Why Children's Books?

#48

Post by oliwarner »

graemep wrote: post #20

I think she places too much importance on this: "British children’s books have often taught other truths – that the best thing you can be is white, upper or middle class, and if you are a girl, quiet. " Firstly, there are many exceptions. For example, Aravis in CS Lewis's The Horse and His Boy is neither white nor remotely quiet - she is aristocratic. The Telmarine descended characters in the later books in the serie…

But if you look at the corpus of British children's literature from 1900-1980, generally the people who could afford to be authors were white, middle class men.

Allowing that generalisations trample all over many superb exceptions, it's not a bad thing to recognise that representation matters. It matter that there be authors that you identify with, even if they aren't writing about you.

Re: Why Children's Books?

#49

Post by bombcar »

alt227 wrote: post #35
te_chris wrote: post #14

Excellent essay. I hadn’t taken it seriously until I had my own but it’s crazy how variable kids books can be. The stats at the end about access for the poorest are heart breaking. My son loves his books and it’s so nice to see.

I dont know about other coutries, but here in the UK reading is a serious thing for kids. There are libraries in every village and town, and there are regular drives and events to get kids interested in reading. They give stickers to the kids every time they go, give them free books to keep, and allow things like dropping your books back to any other library ino the area, and renewing them online. I had previously th…

At least where we are in the USA there’s a similar story - in fact, the problem becomes finding space for all the free books kids get!

We even get a kids book with every dr visit.

Re: Why Children's Books?

#50

Post by vixen99 »

oliwarner wrote: post #48
graemep wrote: post #20

I think she places too much importance on this: "British children’s books have often taught other truths – that the best thing you can be is white, upper or middle class, and if you are a girl, quiet. " Firstly, there are many exceptions. For example, Aravis in CS Lewis's The Horse and His Boy is neither white nor remotely quiet - she is aristocratic. The Telmarine descended characters in the later books in the serie…

But if you look at the corpus of British children's literature from 1900-1980, generally the people who could afford to be authors were white, middle class men. Allowing that generalisations trample all over many superb exceptions, it's not a bad thing to recognise that representation matters . It matter that there be authors that you identify with, even if they aren't writing about you.

What's the surprise? Not easy to have the time and place to write interesting stories and adventures if you're preoccupied with a physically demanding job so that you can keep warm in the winter, feed yourself and your family and retain adequate accommodation.

Generally speaking if you want to do something really significant in some field it's as well if you don't already have it, to ensure your own economic autonomy first. The exceptions are really exceptional people!

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