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Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

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Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is ClickHouse exposing unauthenticated database access at port 9000 to the public? Is this the default behavior or did DeepSeek open it up for dev purposes?

That used to be the default setup for Redis, too. Might still be. You aren’t supposed to have it on a public subnet.

> You aren’t supposed to have it on a public subnet.

That's an incredibly bad assumption. To have defaults assume that you are on a protected network (what does that even mean? like what permissions are assumed just because you are on the same network? admin?) is just bad practice.

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#42
post #5

This kinda does support the 'DeepSeek is the side project of a bunch of quants' angle. Seems like the kind of mistake you would make if you are not used to deploying external client facing applications.

DeepSeek isn’t a side project or just a bunch of quants - these are part of the marketing that people keep repeating blindly for some reason. To build DeepSeek probably requires at least a $1B+ budget. Between their alleged 50,000 H100 GPUs, expensive (and talented) staff, and the sheer cost of iterating across numerous training runs - it all adds up to far, far more than their highly dubious claim of $5.5M. Anyone spending that amount of money isn’t just doing a side project.

The client facing aspect isn’t the problem here. This linked article is talking about the backend having vulnerabilities, not the client facing application. It’s about a database that is accessible from the internet, with no authentication, with unencrypted data sitting in it. High Flyer, the parent company of Deep Seek, already has a lot of backend experience, since that is a core part of the technologies they’ve built to operate the fund. If you’re a quantitative hedge fund, you aren’t just going to be lazy about your backend systems and data security. They have a lot of experience and capability to manage those backend systems just fine.

I’m not saying other companies are perfect either. There’s a long list of American companies that violate user privacy, or have bad security that then gets exploited by (often Chinese or Russian) hackers. But encrypting data in a database seems really basic, and requiring authentication on a database also seems really basic. It would be one thing if exposure of sensitive info required some complicated approach. But this degree of failure raises lots of questions whether such companies can ever be trusted.

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#43
post #2

And that's why you run models locally. Or if you want a remote chat model, use something stateless like AWS Bedrock custom model import to avoid having stored chats on the server.

Not many non-gamers have hardware capable of running such a model locally - never mind the skills.

For most people, bash is not a tool for interacting with the computer, it is how they express their frustration with the computer (sometimes leaving damaged keyboards).

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#44
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus Volkswagen and Subaru in the last few weeks ...

Plus Volkswagen and Subaru in the last few weeks Both Volkswagen and Subaru have leaked his DNA in the last few weeks? Dude gets around.

VW is the people's wagon - where do you think those people come from?

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#45
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of ML researchers who were initially hired to do quant work published their first ever user facing project. So maybe not a side project, but if you have ever worked with ML researchers before, lack of engineering/security chops shouldn't be that surprising to you.

First ever? Their math, coding, and other models have been making a splash since 2023. The mythologizing around deepseek is just absurd. "Deepseek is the tale of one lowly hedgefund manager overcoming the wicked American AI devils". Every day I hear variations of this, and the vast majority of it is based entirely in "vibes" emanating from some unknown place.

Models and security are very different uses of our synapses. Publishing any number of models is no proof of anything beyond models. Talented mathematicians and programmers though they may be.

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#47

[edit: Nevermind, see below] The direct disclosure of urls and ports is insane. Wonder if they would be as irresponsible if it was MSFT, OpenAI, Anthropic, etc. PS: Not defending DeepSeek for bad practices, but still. Nothing irresponsible here. PS2: It is marked as resolved, I went directly to the vulns due to the title of the post.

Why is ClickHouse exposing unauthenticated database access at port 9000 to the public? Is this the default behavior or did DeepSeek open it up for dev purposes?

[dead]

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#49

[edit: Nevermind, see below] The direct disclosure of urls and ports is insane. Wonder if they would be as irresponsible if it was MSFT, OpenAI, Anthropic, etc. PS: Not defending DeepSeek for bad practices, but still. Nothing irresponsible here. PS2: It is marked as resolved, I went directly to the vulns due to the title of the post.

Why is ClickHouse exposing unauthenticated database access at port 9000 to the public? Is this the default behavior or did DeepSeek open it up for dev purposes?

I don't have personal experience but from a quick google it looks like default setup is to accept connections on localhost only [0], and there's a default user without capability to run SQL statements. They would have had to open remote connections and enable SQL capability for the default user (it looks like this is the first step to creating other users, the 3rd step is, removing SQL capability for default user.) [1]:

  1. Enable SQL-driven access control and account management for the default user.
  2. Log in to the default user account and create all the required users. Don’t forget to create an administrator account (GRANT ALL ON *.* TO admin_user_account WITH GRANT OPTION).
  3. Restrict permissions for the default user and disable SQL-driven access control and account management for it.
[0] https://chistadata.com/knowledge-base/allow-clickhouse-to-ac...

[1] https://clickhouse.com/docs/en/operations/access-rights

Re: Exposed DeepSeek database leaking sensitive information, including chat history

#50
post #5

This kinda does support the 'DeepSeek is the side project of a bunch of quants' angle. Seems like the kind of mistake you would make if you are not used to deploying external client facing applications.

DeepSeek isn’t a side project or just a bunch of quants - these are part of the marketing that people keep repeating blindly for some reason. To build DeepSeek probably requires at least a $1B+ budget. Between their alleged 50,000 H100 GPUs, expensive (and talented) staff, and the sheer cost of iterating across numerous training runs - it all adds up to far, far more than their highly dubious claim of $5.5M. Anyone s…

You think they deliberately left their DB open to the internet, without a password? Why?
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