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Google Maps in the US Will Change to Gulf of America and Mount McKinley

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Re: Google Maps in the US Will Change to Gulf of America and Mount McKinley

#41

Post by roenxi »

nicbou wrote: post #28
pmb wrote: post #18

Countries can tell companies what the maps of their countries should look like and what things should be called. For example, Google shows different info about the Kashmir region depending on whether you are in Pakistan or India or external to both, because of how the Indian and Pakistani governments define the borders and names of the region. If the US government changes a thing's name, then Google will change that…

When I worked at HERE Maps this was a pretty standard thing to do. Countries have official named in multiple languages. Borders are seen differently by different governments. A map is anything but static.

And the chaos of translation. It is fun to consider whether somewhere like Johannesburg should be called Johannesburg or Johnscity or YHWHisMercifulFortifiedPlace or what in English. The standard is obviously to keep the local term and pronunciation, but then apply that logic to languages with different scripts and nothing really makes sense in a satisfying way because mapmakers can't avoid some amount of translation. It is a muddle of conventions.

Re: Google Maps in the US Will Change to Gulf of America and Mount McKinley

#42

Post by olivierduval »

pjc50 wrote: post #13

America's version of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-dash_line , I guess. At least they've not started making territorial claims to go with it, this is just a renaming to appease nationalists.

Actually, a lot of territorial claims start with "renaming", to provide support for some kind of base for the claim.

That specific case would have been quite minor (in the Trumpian show) except that it comes at the same time as USA (... sorry for all non-Trump supporter, but now that he's your POTUS, he represents all of you) suggest to invade (euh... "take back" ?) Panama and Groenland !

Right now, from outside of the USA, the USA is starting to be seen more as a wannabe-invader than an trusted ally...

So the renaming... that could have been just another Trump-ery (french play on word ;-) )... is taken quite seriously

Re: Google Maps in the US Will Change to Gulf of America and Mount McKinley

#45

Post by ben_w »

olivierduval wrote: post #42
pjc50 wrote: post #13

America's version of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-dash_line , I guess. At least they've not started making territorial claims to go with it, this is just a renaming to appease nationalists.

Actually, a lot of territorial claims start with "renaming", to provide support for some kind of base for the claim. That specific case would have been quite minor (in the Trumpian show) except that it comes at the same time as USA (... sorry for all non-Trump supporter, but now that he's your POTUS, he represents all of you) suggest to invade (euh... "take back" ?) Panama and Groenland ! Right now, from outside of t…

> Right now, from outside of the USA, the USA is starting to be seen more as a wannabe-invader than an trusted ally...

I was thinking something very similar, even before I heard the Gulf-name news.

Not sure what I should do with this belief, I don't want it living rent free in my head: https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/making-beliefs-pay-rent

Re: Google Maps in the US Will Change to Gulf of America and Mount McKinley

#46

Post by viciousvoxel »

nailer wrote: post #40
GJim wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real notable event is the official change of name by the US government Correct. Also this is a very politicised name change. Ergo, in the USA it will be embraced by supporters of the orange one, whilst everybody else in the USA will continue to call it "Gulf of Mexico". As this was clearly done to stir up controversy, I can't think of anything more ridiculous. The job of a head of state is to unite a people, no…

> Ergo, in the USA it will be embraced by supporters of the orange one, whilst everybody else in the USA will continue to call it "Gulf of Mexico". Most Americans support ‘the orange one’. There was a poll conducted on this quite recently.

This is actually not true: just under 50% of votes went to GOP. Additionally, only 64% of the voting-eligible population voted, so it was more like 32% of the adult population voting GOP. "Everybody else" represents a larger population.

Re: Google Maps in the US Will Change to Gulf of America and Mount McKinley

#47

Post by ks2048 »

The Gulf is getting more attention, but the McKinley one is pretty dumb too, considering McKinley never set foot in Alaska. Although, of course, it had that name before.

Trump seems to have a thing for McKinley - he has talked about him, which is interesting because I don't consider Trump much of history buff.

McKinley was big on tariffs and territorial expansion. It was the Gilded Age of concentration of wealth and corruption. And he was assassinated in the first year of his second term.

Re: Google Maps in the US Will Change to Gulf of America and Mount McKinley

#48

Post by glimshe »

idle_zealot wrote: post #39
pmb wrote: post #18

Countries can tell companies what the maps of their countries should look like and what things should be called. For example, Google shows different info about the Kashmir region depending on whether you are in Pakistan or India or external to both, because of how the Indian and Pakistani governments define the borders and names of the region. If the US government changes a thing's name, then Google will change that…

I don't want Google naming things, but I don't want a President naming them either. My preference is for things to be named by the people who live there/use the thing, but failing that at least I would want my mapping software to present the fact that there are multiple names/borders and let me pick which I want to view.

The president was given this power by the people. Crowd sourcing this is a particularly bad idea as countries already have working institutions that map and name things.

One alternative would be for Congress to create more barriers for name changes.

Re: Google Maps in the US Will Change to Gulf of America and Mount McKinley

#49

Post by Freak_NL »

roenxi wrote: post #41
nicbou wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I worked at HERE Maps this was a pretty standard thing to do. Countries have official named in multiple languages. Borders are seen differently by different governments. A map is anything but static.

And the chaos of translation. It is fun to consider whether somewhere like Johannesburg should be called Johannesburg or Johnscity or YHWHisMercifulFortifiedPlace or what in English. The standard is obviously to keep the local term and pronunciation, but then apply that logic to languages with different scripts and nothing really makes sense in a satisfying way because mapmakers can't avoid some amount of translation…

There is no chaos there. When you label something on a map, you never translate any of the names. What you do, is use the exonyms which already exist. That is, local names which may have been literally translated at some point, or might simply have changed to align with local orthography and pronunciation, and which have become common place and accepted.

Like encyclopaedia, most reliable real-world maps document what it is, not what the author thinks it should be (obviously this is a possible use of maps; see China's nine-dash-line bullshit). So you wouldn't be making your own translations. At most, you would transliterate names in scripts not readily understood by your target audience.

Re: Google Maps in the US Will Change to Gulf of America and Mount McKinley

#50

Post by glimshe »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #25
jdougan wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it should have been: "Gulf of the Americas"

Even "Gulf of America" wouldn't be SO bad if people like me (non-US English speaker) can wean ourselves off the habit of referring to the US as "America". I'm going to start doing my bit.

People in Latin America rarely call the US "America", although often call people born in the USA "Americano".

Brazilians, Mexicans, Argentinans etc are all "Americans" technically. I think the name change was silly but "Gulf of America" is a better name.

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