Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Story of Steve Jobs: An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale?

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 108 posts

Re: The Story of Steve Jobs: An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale?

#41

Post by pooriaazimi »

michaelpinto wrote: post #25
pooriaazimi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He almost did nothing for Pixar, except pouring money into it quarter after quarter and using Toy Story's success to rise again. He was a very big visionary, a great manager and he deserves every bit of praise he gets for what he did at Apple in his second coming, but his role at Pixar was only to negotiate and give them money; not that it's an unimportant thing. Pixar would most certainly not exist today if it wasn'…

Actually what he did right with Pixar was to let the creative people be creative. I realize that sounds like nothing, and yes it is nothing -- but it's everything and here's why: A bad producer or studio head who isn't a creative will always get his or her paws all over the film projects and tend to ruin them. Or worse yet select projects not on the creative merits but on a perceived notion of how they'll do in the b…

Exactly. And that's what I was trying to say. He created (or recreated) bot Apple and Pixar, but his role at two companies was completely different.

Re: The Story of Steve Jobs: An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale?

#42

Post by datalus »

brandall10 wrote: post #33
nsns wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you describe is very childish behavior, infantile even, but I believe you are right about Jobs being like that, and I think this might explain why he was so good at making toys adults crave like children. But we shouldn't idolize someone like that, IMHO, this isn't healthy conduct. Even if he has made a lot of money during certain periods of his life, it does not vindicate his behavior or make him a proper role…

Who said anything about money? He changed the game multiple times in multiple industries, and had his greatest successes as he was fighting death. If you compare his net impact vs. actual wealth he was a pauper... and esp if you look at his stake in Apple, as the majority of his wealth was from Pixar/Disney. There are too many 'responsible adults' wallowing in mediocrity who more than anything else actually drag the…

Ah the American conquer, might is right arguement. No wonder your country ranks pretty high on the misery scale... There's more to life than "dominating" industries.

Edit: I should qualify this a bit more. If it does make you happy to basically have no life outside of a career, then go for it. Everyone's happiness is something only they can answer for themselves. Some people can tolerate being lonely, and I'm pretty sure Steve Jobs was a lonely person (after reading the Isaacson book), despite having people around him.

Re: The Story of Steve Jobs: An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale?

#43

Post by imgabe »

nsns wrote: post #23
imgabe wrote: post #12

One of the things that struck me while reading Jobs' biography was how frequently he cried. Numerous times throughout he's described as weeping, sometimes at momentous occasions, like getting fired from Apple, and sometimes over relatively trivial matters. Think about it. When was the last time you saw a grown person cry about something at work? Ever? I think one of the things that made Steve Steve, and made him capa…

What you describe is very childish behavior, infantile even, but I believe you are right about Jobs being like that, and I think this might explain why he was so good at making toys adults crave like children. But we shouldn't idolize someone like that, IMHO, this isn't healthy conduct. Even if he has made a lot of money during certain periods of his life, it does not vindicate his behavior or make him a proper role…

It is childish. I think it would be nearly impossible for a normal adult to act that way, because part of growing up and becoming an adult is learning to repress emotional outbursts like that and most people are not even going to feel very strongly about design details in the first place.

The lesson is that design details do matter, and when you pay attention to them it has a cumulative effect that results in a much better product. You do have to develop a certain amount of callousness to pursue your vision. You don't have to scream and berate people, but when you're sending a design back for the tenth time, you're bound to start thinking "Gosh, this designer is going to think I'm an asshole." A lot of people will just accept something that's not exactly what they want just to avoid potential bad feelings from someone else.

The emotional aspect made it easy and natural for Steve to pursue the design until it was exactly what he wanted. Indeed, it probably made it nearly impossible for him to do anything else. The rest of us have to consciously override social impulses that value getting along and being liked higher than small details. The upside is that we get to manage our response so we can motivate with something other than fear.

Re: The Story of Steve Jobs: An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale?

#44

Post by mcantelon »

crag wrote: post #32

Wasn't he a buddhist? Not that that means anything. Buddhist's are more then capable of being shit-heads. But if he was a practicing buddhist.. wouldn't he had recognized what leads to suffering? Desire of course. Desire to be be perfect. Or maybe his desire to prove he was right? There are other words I'd use to describe him (and several other corporate giants); arrogance comes to mind. Sometimes these men think the…

>Why I love hearing a billionaire say, "I'm a self made man". Oh really? So all the people who worked for you, cooked for you, kept your schedule, managed your companies, investments and life didn't do a damn thing? Really?

The individualist "self made man" notion seems a conceit designed to introduce the concept of aristocracy, which humans seem drawn to, to modern capitalism.

Re: The Story of Steve Jobs: An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale?

#45

Post by koglerjs »

fusiongyro wrote: post #24
koglerjs wrote: post #13

In my experience "the rules of social engagement" are as often used to entangle and obstruct as they are to create civility. Think of "foot-in-the-door" phenomenon. Sometimes rudeness is respect, especially if it's an honest communication. Jobs needed an on-time supplier, and it was arguably worth the cost of a legal battle in order to get one. As others have said, though, it spawns imitators that think "Steve berate…

> Sometimes rudeness is respect, especially if it's an honest communication. I disagree, you fucking piece of shit.

See, I'd still buy this scummy dirtbag of an excuse for a human being a beer. ;)

Re: The Story of Steve Jobs: An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale?

#46

Post by stcredzero »

nsns wrote: post #23
imgabe wrote: post #12

One of the things that struck me while reading Jobs' biography was how frequently he cried. Numerous times throughout he's described as weeping, sometimes at momentous occasions, like getting fired from Apple, and sometimes over relatively trivial matters. Think about it. When was the last time you saw a grown person cry about something at work? Ever? I think one of the things that made Steve Steve, and made him capa…

What you describe is very childish behavior, infantile even, but I believe you are right about Jobs being like that, and I think this might explain why he was so good at making toys adults crave like children. But we shouldn't idolize someone like that, IMHO, this isn't healthy conduct. Even if he has made a lot of money during certain periods of his life, it does not vindicate his behavior or make him a proper role…

> What you describe is very childish behavior...I think this might explain why he was so good at making toys adults crave like children.

The key is not the childishness. The key is that he cared about important things in the context of making and delivering a great product.

I've played at a number of Irish Traditional sessions around the country. In one town I lived, there was a very bad drummer who was there every week without fail. No one would say anything out of politeness. After about a half a year, I took it on myself to say something, not in a mean but in a matter of fact way. Her ego was bruised, but on doing that several other musicians immediately thanked me. It seems that everyone there prioritized politeness over the level of musicianship possible, even though they knew it compromised quality.

I think it's entirely possible to change one's priorities without being mean or childish, even to the extent of inverting socially accepted priority orderings. Not everyone is going to appreciate what you're doing, but if your heart is in the right place, and you are behaving constructively towards your craft, your customers may well appreciate you.

(As much as possible, leave out the childishness.)

EDIT: You can also invert this -- let emotional baggage leak into your "concern for craft" and your behavior will very much be counted against you.

Re: The Story of Steve Jobs: An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale?

#47

Post by fusiongyro »

koglerjs wrote: post #45
fusiongyro wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes rudeness is respect, especially if it's an honest communication. I disagree, you fucking piece of shit.

See, I'd still buy this scummy dirtbag of an excuse for a human being a beer. ;)

Well said. :)

Re: The Story of Steve Jobs: An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale?

#48

Post by Of_Prometheus »

crag wrote: post #32

Wasn't he a buddhist? Not that that means anything. Buddhist's are more then capable of being shit-heads. But if he was a practicing buddhist.. wouldn't he had recognized what leads to suffering? Desire of course. Desire to be be perfect. Or maybe his desire to prove he was right? There are other words I'd use to describe him (and several other corporate giants); arrogance comes to mind. Sometimes these men think the…

> "But if he was a practicing buddhist.. wouldn't he had recognized what leads to suffering? Desire of course."

Fascinating dynamic, isn't it? Regardless of whether he managed to succeed in eliminating personal suffering, it's rather strange that he served as a "devil" of sorts (in the philosophy) in creating a world where desire was the greatest commodity. In a sense, he created more suffering in the world.

Re: The Story of Steve Jobs: An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale?

#49

Post by soperj »

imgabe wrote: post #19
Ralith wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So his only valuable contribution was as an investor? That doesn't speak very well of him.

Not just the investment, but he also negotiated the partnership with Disney in such a way that Pixar was able to retain creative control of the movies and their identity as a studio. If not for him, they would have been subsumed into Disney and the movies would have been focus-grouped into bland drivel.

I get that you're a jobs fan, but suggesting that Disney movies are bland drivel, especially their cartoons is being disingenuous.

Re: The Story of Steve Jobs: An Inspiration or a Cautionary Tale?

#50

Post by imgabe »

soperj wrote: post #49
imgabe wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just the investment, but he also negotiated the partnership with Disney in such a way that Pixar was able to retain creative control of the movies and their identity as a studio. If not for him, they would have been subsumed into Disney and the movies would have been focus-grouped into bland drivel.

I get that you're a jobs fan, but suggesting that Disney movies are bland drivel, especially their cartoons is being disingenuous.

Well, I was thinking of a specific anecdote about how one of the Disney execs kept insisting that Woody in Toy Story had to be "meaner" and "more edgy" to the point that the project was almost scrapped because it wasn't working.

But in general, the recent Disney animated movies haven't been all that great, and a lot of what they do is just straight-to-dvd stuff to make some quick money on their existing properties.

Post reply on HN