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We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

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Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#41

Post by bayindirh »

concerndc1tizen wrote: post #6

If you don't like it, then why don't you use a different provider? If you want free stuff, is your strategy to smear them into giving you more free stuff? Storage, compute, and traffic, isn't free. You've been the beneficiary of charity for years. Yes, the open source community has relied on this implicit charity as a parasite, by exploiting whatever free services they could. And now we're paying the price, as you sa…

You're framing this wrong.

They don't whine because they didn't get DSOS status this year. They are confused because they didn't get an answer.

They want communication, not free cookies.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#42

Post by arcbyte »

tuyiown wrote: post #36
akudha wrote: post #22

I don’t understand why companies/people don’t respond. Apply for a job, they talk to you for months and stop suddenly. Go on multiple dates, then the person stops responding. Etc. A simple polite “we’re not moving forward with your application” email is better than silence. How hard can it be to show some basic decency and courtesy?

I think you're underestimating how explicit rejection triggers awful behavior to seemingly way too many people, so one can be wary of releasing it, plus the fact that rejecting others is not easy for people, automating it seems dehumanizing, so the things stays as they are, so silence it is. I've been related several times about people that wanted explicit reasons of why they've been rejected, and ending up mad at th…

You're 100% right.

Still, i think we should expect better of companies and candidates on both ends.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#43

Post by exe34 »

surgical_fire wrote: post #25
concerndc1tizen wrote: post #6

If you don't like it, then why don't you use a different provider? If you want free stuff, is your strategy to smear them into giving you more free stuff? Storage, compute, and traffic, isn't free. You've been the beneficiary of charity for years. Yes, the open source community has relied on this implicit charity as a parasite, by exploiting whatever free services they could. And now we're paying the price, as you sa…

> the open source community has relied on this implicit charity as a parasite Very loaded language you use, when, typically, commercial software relies on Open Source software and community efforts as a parasite.

Projection allows one to set the frame of the debate, if you then accuse them of parasitism, it doesn't carry the same weight, as they've already used it against you.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#44

Post by bartread »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #26
bartread wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careful now: people will start accusing you of NIH. But I fully agree with you. Likely what you need is a tiny subset of the capabilities wrapped up by the higher level abstraction, so implement them directly. Over time you may find you need additional capabilities (although that's far from a given) and, if and when you do, you'll need to make decisions about whether to implement them directly, or wrap everything in…

If you wanna NIH you can just build your own docker. It's just an abstraction around some newer syscalls for process isolation. There's really not much magic to be found if you look into how it's done. You can probably have a working prototype up in a weekend if you've got some systems programming experience.

I'm sure this has been on HN more than once but here's Bocker as an example of what you're talking about: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42224670

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#45

Post by jaapz »

bananapub wrote: post #16
TZubiri wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or run no registry. Here's a port from a Dockerfile to just a vm: FROM Debian CMD apt-get install thing CMD curl blabla/install.sh Pretty much converts to: aws-cli ec2 launch-instance ssh user@server apt-get install thing ssh user@server curl blabla/install.sh In general, everytime you dispense of a high level abstraction, the solution is not to replicate the high level abstraction, but to build directly at a lower l…

what a profoundly useless comment. "why don't you do something else, unrelated, which doesn't solve any of the problems you have?" is absolutely the Ur-HN Reply.

Yeah it sounds like something someone would say who hasn't actually used docker (or containerization at all) much but has decided it sucks anyway.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#46

Post by thespad »

concerndc1tizen wrote: post #6

If you don't like it, then why don't you use a different provider? If you want free stuff, is your strategy to smear them into giving you more free stuff? Storage, compute, and traffic, isn't free. You've been the beneficiary of charity for years. Yes, the open source community has relied on this implicit charity as a parasite, by exploiting whatever free services they could. And now we're paying the price, as you sa…

We do use other providers, but as stated Docker Hub is the defacto standard so it would be counterproductive for us to abandon it entirely.

We don't "want free stuff", we pay for docker hub for several accounts, but they offer and promote an Open Source program that we have been part of, that simply does not function properly, and that is our complaint.

Your attitude of "well it's free so it's fine if it's shit, just go somewhere else" is wildly unhelpful to everyone.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#47

Post by namaria »

concerndc1tizen wrote: post #6

If you don't like it, then why don't you use a different provider? If you want free stuff, is your strategy to smear them into giving you more free stuff? Storage, compute, and traffic, isn't free. You've been the beneficiary of charity for years. Yes, the open source community has relied on this implicit charity as a parasite, by exploiting whatever free services they could. And now we're paying the price, as you sa…

Free resources are not charity and using them is not parasitic. Without the sharing ethos there would be no modern software.

Those who can grasp the complexity of needing an ecosystem for modern technology to exist foster it and those who think strictly along the lines of profitability and short sighted morals are the unwitting beneficiaries of things they don't understand.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#48

Post by TZubiri »

sherburt3 wrote: post #29
TZubiri wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or run no registry. Here's a port from a Dockerfile to just a vm: FROM Debian CMD apt-get install thing CMD curl blabla/install.sh Pretty much converts to: aws-cli ec2 launch-instance ssh user@server apt-get install thing ssh user@server curl blabla/install.sh In general, everytime you dispense of a high level abstraction, the solution is not to replicate the high level abstraction, but to build directly at a lower l…

Just look at how much shorter and nicer the docker example is compared to the VM example. Also first example runs locally on any computer with docker or podman or whatever installed, second example exclusively runs on AWS.

"Just look at how much shorter and nicer the docker example is compared to the VM example."

Is this trolling? Who gives a shit? It's 3 lines that will be buried deep in the stack. You can even do it manually Gasp. and write the steps with screenshots in a word document or an email.

"lso first example runs locally on any computer with docker or podman or whatever installed, second example exclusively runs on AWS."

So we have a multiple GB full vendor neutral system that runs on any provider with support for a Free Operating system, or even your own machine. And you are getting hang up because the process for deploying that vendor neutral system is itself not vendor neutral?

This is what I was writing about getting hung up on the 1% last mile. It's going to draw so much effort to convert that last mile into a fully compliant vendor neutral solution, for almost no benefit, I just proved that you can port it in 3 seconds, if we migrate to GCP I just change the first line and you are done.

Furthermore as soon as you want to make this solution 100% compliant with whatever metric (in this case vendor neutrality), you introduce more dependencies with more stuff to make vendor neutral. In a sense you are now locked in to Docker, shouldn't we make an abstraction layer so that we can run this thing with Docker or Podman indistinguishably?

Get your focus back on the actual product you are building instead of how nice 3 lines look.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#50

Post by oftenwrong »

hobofan wrote: post #5
TZubiri wrote: post #3

[flagged]

> It's a naturally vendor neutral tech so migrating should be trivial. So are the OCI standards that grew out of Docker and now are mostly used separate from (official) Docker. Is there even a vendor neutral VM image format?

OCI image _is_ a vendor neutral VM image format; the runtime spec includes facilities for running VMs: https://github.com/opencontainers/runtime-spec/blob/main/con...
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