Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds • Hacker News Board

Re: Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds

#41

Post by jiggy2011 » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 8:51 AM UTC

Andrenid wrote: post #19

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #9

I'm a long time Linux and Android fan, but had no interest in a tablet. I recently had not one, but two Android disliking friends buy a Nexus 7 and one even sold his iPad shortly thereafter. Needless to say, I wound up pulling the trigger. It's really quite nice how well Android 4 and up work n multiple form factors. This just reconvinces me that there are a host of people that would adopt Android if they gave a more…

I'm another linux fan that just did NOT see the appeal to an "oversized phone", and also got burned by how crappy earlier versions of Android were. I've ignored all the tablets that came out, iPads, Android tablets, all of them... then when I saw this one, I figured "at that price, i'll give it a shot"... I'm SO glad I did. Absolutely loving my Nexus 7, and it has 100% converted me to being a tablet fan.

Just curious, what about the functionality changed your mind?

Re: Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds

#42

Post by potatolicious » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 9:02 AM UTC

Steko wrote: post #39

mjfern wrote: post #11

> I prefer the plain android look, and dislike the various skins manufacturers have used (I really don't understand the "pee in the snow" model of skinning android to look and act horrible just so that the different manufacturers can make their mark on it - I'm pretty sure the majority of people tend to prefer plain android). Tablet and smartphone manufacturers are doing this because they are trying to differentiate…

It's easy in July 2012 for Linus (or whoever) to say "why mess with stock android" as if it's always been as good as 4.1. These layers were built not just for differentiation but for base functionality/gloss that stock eclair/froyo/gingerbread lacked. And try not to be shocked but many users preferred those ui layers and those phones way outsold the stock phones head to head. Also it's vaguely relevant to remember th…

This is a nonsensical analysis - there was a single stock phone on the market at any one time, which was always sold unlocked at full-price directly from Google, with little to no marketing.

Compared with the "customized" Android phones which were the subject of international marketing campaigns, deeply discounted with contracts, etc etc.

The notion that customized-UI phones outsold the stock, barely public-knowledge Nexus phones does not in any way imply consumer preference.

Re: Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds

#43

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 9:16 AM UTC

klawed wrote: post #40

jonny_eh wrote: post #2

That's actually a really well done short review. It was well paced, and he did a good job of not just sharing his opinions, but explaining them so that I could tell if they would apply to me or not.

This is a actually a great, succinct review of Linus' short review. Short, compact and does a nice job explaining the components that will make the review helpful to readers.

[deleted]

Re: Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds

#44

Post by ableal » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 9:41 AM UTC

notatoad wrote: post #27

scorpioxy wrote: post #16

His comment about 10-inch tablets being too big got my attention. I am in the market for a tablet that I am going to replace my dead Sony e-reader(6 inch I think). But i think the 7-inch ones are just too small for reading. Has anyone tried to compare both sizes? I am mainly interested in using it for reading tech books and the occasional email. Currently leaning towards a transformer.

for reading fiction, ~7" tablets or e-readers are the sweet spot. if you're reading technical stuff with diagrams, the ipad really is the best option. a 10" 16:9 screen sucks for anything but movies, you really will appreciate the 4:3 screen.

Right on all counts. Fiction on 6 inch e-ink works well - think paperbacks. Technical PDFs need more, and even at the same screen size, really work better on the iPad than on the old Kindle DX.

I also much prefer the 4:3 ratio - the narrow 16:9 devices give you much less area for the same diagonal measure, as this chart accurately points out: https://twitter.com/trojankitten/status/221270669273468930 (or http://a.yfrog.com/img615/4234/6j2n.png for just the image).

Incidentally, the Archos G9-80 is a nice 8 inch Android tablet sporting a 1024x768 screen, currently selling for around 200 euros. I think the rumored mini iPad will be the same form factor.

Re: Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds

#45

Post by mrich » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 9:43 AM UTC

gxs wrote: post #23

mjfern wrote: post #11

> I prefer the plain android look, and dislike the various skins manufacturers have used (I really don't understand the "pee in the snow" model of skinning android to look and act horrible just so that the different manufacturers can make their mark on it - I'm pretty sure the majority of people tend to prefer plain android). Tablet and smartphone manufacturers are doing this because they are trying to differentiate…

Furthermore, they are actually doing a great job of this. I've used all flavors of android out there, to be honest, I recently flashed Jellybean on my Evo and sorely miss Sense UI. Tons of subtle little things that Sense gets right that are just plain lacking in Vanilla Android. Just my two cents.

Fully agree. It always amazes me how Sense gets bashed so much. They have really delivered some handy improvements.

Re: Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds

#46

Post by Steko » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 10:19 AM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #42

Steko wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy in July 2012 for Linus (or whoever) to say "why mess with stock android" as if it's always been as good as 4.1. These layers were built not just for differentiation but for base functionality/gloss that stock eclair/froyo/gingerbread lacked. And try not to be shocked but many users preferred those ui layers and those phones way outsold the stock phones head to head. Also it's vaguely relevant to remember th…

This is a nonsensical analysis - there was a single stock phone on the market at any one time, which was always sold unlocked at full-price directly from Google, with little to no marketing. Compared with the "customized" Android phones which were the subject of international marketing campaigns, deeply discounted with contracts, etc etc. The notion that customized-UI phones outsold the stock, barely public-knowledge…

I'm primarily thinking of Galaxy nexus vs Galaxy S II for head to head as that's been the first one that's been pushed by carriers.

I suppose the Xoom qualifies here as well though or did you miss the international marketing campaign, massive coverage and then how it sold less units then tabs running gingerbread.

The bottom line is in any of these had really caught fire with real consumers as opposed to the hacker commentariat we'd see a lot more of them.

Re: Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds

#47

Post by maayank » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 10:36 AM UTC

redthrowaway wrote: post #33

Completely OT, but I'm really starting to like G+. I deactivated my FB account (reactivated because of a girl--go figure), and found myself browsing G+ for the first time in months. I was shocked by the difference in content quality. My FB newsfeed is full of inane posts by family and a few friends, whereas my G+ feed is almost a reddit/HN replacement. Quite impressed, although I don't see it replacing FB simply due…

"whereas my G+ feed is almost a reddit/HN replacement"

any suggestions for people like Linus who post well and often to G+ publicly?

Re: Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds

#48

Post by jbrechtel » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 10:52 AM UTC

mjfern wrote: post #11

> I prefer the plain android look, and dislike the various skins manufacturers have used (I really don't understand the "pee in the snow" model of skinning android to look and act horrible just so that the different manufacturers can make their mark on it - I'm pretty sure the majority of people tend to prefer plain android). Tablet and smartphone manufacturers are doing this because they are trying to differentiate…

I can understand this reasoning, but is it really the case? In practice does anyone actually stick to HTC or Motorola because of their skins?

I know that the feedback I usually hear has a huge selection bias in this regard (almost all techies) which is why I'm asking the question.

Even considering the selection biased, I'd be surprised if people preferred these skins. I think that people who are aware of these skins, and the options out there, probably don't like them. If they're not aware of them then they can't prefer them, right?

Re: Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds

#49

Post by jiggy2011 » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 11:06 AM UTC

charliesome wrote: post #17

mjfern wrote: post #11

> I prefer the plain android look, and dislike the various skins manufacturers have used (I really don't understand the "pee in the snow" model of skinning android to look and act horrible just so that the different manufacturers can make their mark on it - I'm pretty sure the majority of people tend to prefer plain android). Tablet and smartphone manufacturers are doing this because they are trying to differentiate…

Why don't manufacturers compete on quality instead? I can walk into a store and see the Apple computers on one side and the Windows computers on the other. All the Apple computers look and feel beautiful, but the Windows computers are plastered with stickers and 'Beats by Dr Dre' branding. They're made out of what looks like the cheapest plastic ever. I can understand why Apple is absolutely killing it at the moment…

This is kind of a chicken/egg perception problem. The perception is that if you want to buy a "posh" computer you should get a Mac. Therefor Mac=Expensive , PC=Cheap.

This is I guess part of the reason that auto manufacturers will use different brand names for different market segments. Because it's difficult to signal "I am successful and buy nice cars" with a Skoda badge.

An example of a "high end" PC would be Alienware, which whilst they have some nice hardware they just look horrendously tacky. Basically the equivalent of sticking florescent lighting all over your Subaru.

There is also the potential patent minefield if you want to start manufacturing things that look like or use similar materials to Apple devices.

Re: Quick Nexus 7 Comments By Linus Torvalds

#50

Post by mtgx » Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 11:17 AM UTC

mjfern wrote: post #11

> I prefer the plain android look, and dislike the various skins manufacturers have used (I really don't understand the "pee in the snow" model of skinning android to look and act horrible just so that the different manufacturers can make their mark on it - I'm pretty sure the majority of people tend to prefer plain android). Tablet and smartphone manufacturers are doing this because they are trying to differentiate…

People chose the Lumia 900 because of the design, not because of the specs and the OS (it used the same hardware and OS version as others 6 months before it, so why weren't they so interested in those?). They also chose the Galaxy S3 because of its (mostly) top notch hardware, not because of its "Nature UX" skin. People also tend to buy the iPhone because of how good it looks.

In fact I think there are 3 main reasons why people buy phones in general, and I'm thinking the mass-market here, not the "smartphone savvy" people, who fight over versions of the OS and new features:

1) price (most people have a price range in mind when they buy a phone)

2) design (most people want to either impress their friends or feel good themselves about using it everyday)

3) hardware quality (reliability, feel, display, camera, etc)

I doubt how the software looks is even in the top 5 priorities for most people. Branding is probably a top 5 one, too. When people think of a company that makes "crappy" phones, they generally don't think about how the software looks or works, but about the hardware, and they tend to also buy on brand, just like with many other types of products because branding offers them a level of "trust" that the device will be "good", and won't break a day after purchase.

So I think there's more to it than your simplified view of the market. Also with your logic, then the Windows Phone OS is dead on arrival because it both forces them to use the exact same looking OS, and even worse, it forces them to use the exact same hardware (pretty much).