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Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

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Re: Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

#41

Post by taligent »

SiVal wrote: post #34

Where is Google in all this? They must surely be aware of all such IETF projects. I can understand why Apple wasn't mentioned (Apple Island is a world unto itself to the maximum extent possible), but Google has usually pursued the opposite strategy. This seems like the sort of thing they would get behind unless there is some issue I'm unaware of, and it seems as though Mozilla would mention Google in this infomercial…

Also we should point out that Google should NEVER be trusted.

Their disgraceful behaviour in blackmailing Microsoft over H.264 FRAND patents is of huge concern to anyone who cares about standards. Companies should be encouraged to get together and define industry standards with fair royalty rates. When that happens we ALL win. Clearly the ITC/EU agree.

Hopefully Google will see the error of its ways and change course.

Re: Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

#42

Post by kkowalczyk »

taligent wrote: post #36
SiVal wrote: post #34

Where is Google in all this? They must surely be aware of all such IETF projects. I can understand why Apple wasn't mentioned (Apple Island is a world unto itself to the maximum extent possible), but Google has usually pursued the opposite strategy. This seems like the sort of thing they would get behind unless there is some issue I'm unaware of, and it seems as though Mozilla would mention Google in this infomercial…

Exactly that Apple Island with their industry standard H.264 and AAC files. And Google with their proprietary WebM.

Yes, a completely open-sourced, royalty free and patent-free WebM is "proprietary".

Patent-laden format for which you have to pay multi-million royalties is "industry standard".

Re: Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

#43

Post by kkowalczyk »

taligent wrote: post #41
SiVal wrote: post #34

Where is Google in all this? They must surely be aware of all such IETF projects. I can understand why Apple wasn't mentioned (Apple Island is a world unto itself to the maximum extent possible), but Google has usually pursued the opposite strategy. This seems like the sort of thing they would get behind unless there is some issue I'm unaware of, and it seems as though Mozilla would mention Google in this infomercial…

Also we should point out that Google should NEVER be trusted. Their disgraceful behaviour in blackmailing Microsoft over H.264 FRAND patents is of huge concern to anyone who cares about standards. Companies should be encouraged to get together and define industry standards with fair royalty rates. When that happens we ALL win. Clearly the ITC/EU agree. Hopefully Google will see the error of its ways and change course…

Propaganda is always easier if you fail to mention all the facts.

Like the fact that it was Motorola that used their patents to negotiate with Microsoft long before it was acquired by Google. Or the fact that Motorola did it only after Microsoft blackmailed Motorola, using your rhetoric, with their patent portfolio in order to destroy Android not by making better products but by patent bullying.

Re: Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

#44

Post by SiVal »

wmf wrote: post #38
SiVal wrote: post #34

Where is Google in all this? They must surely be aware of all such IETF projects. I can understand why Apple wasn't mentioned (Apple Island is a world unto itself to the maximum extent possible), but Google has usually pursued the opposite strategy. This seems like the sort of thing they would get behind unless there is some issue I'm unaware of, and it seems as though Mozilla would mention Google in this infomercial…

Google has a big NIH conflict of interest since they bought GIPS. "On the audio side, we will initially support iSAC, iLBC, G.711, and DTMF, with iSAC being the default. It is a royalty free wideband codec optimized for speech, open sourced at webrtc.org." http://blog.chromium.org/2012/04/chromes-webrtc-roadmap.html It looks like somebody volunteered to add Opus to Chrome and was met with silence: https://groups.goog…

Very interesting. That Google Group you link to is very busy with responses to almost all threads, but the one you link to, the May 9 offer to add Opus to Chrome, was met by the sound of crickets.

If IE, Firefox, Opera, and Chrome support it, there might be enough leverage on Apple to add it to Safari (Mac, iOS, maybe iPod), too. But without Chrome, Apple has the political cover to claim that "nobody uses it," so they can kill it.

Re: Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

#45

Post by notatoad »

azakai wrote: post #21
notatoad wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in some ways, a perpetual unrestricted license is better than an unpatented algorithm. The big excuse for not adopting webm was "uncertainty" about the patent situation. If skype has the patents and is giving free licenses, there isn't any uncertainty here, you know that microsoft has no basis to ever sue.

To some (significant) degree, but you never know that no one else has patents on a technology. That's exactly what is so messed up with software patents.

On any specific technology, you absolutely can know that no one else has patents on it. That is the responsibility of the patent office: to grant exclusive rights to an 'invention'. you cannot be held liable for infringement of anything you have a license for.

In this case though, Microsoft only has patents on part of the algorithm, so it is theoretically possible that other parts of the algorithm are covered by other patents.

Re: Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

#46

Post by notatoad »

supercow wrote: post #11
shmerl wrote: post #3

Luckily it's going to be W3C standard, and Apple and MS won't be able to use their lame excuses to avoid implementing it in their browsers, like they did for Vorbis, VP8 and etc.

Microsoft actually helped with the development of Opus according to the article. :)

Not really. Opus incorporates the Skype codec, Microsoft has their name on it by virtue of being the new owner of Skype.

Re: Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

#47

Post by prodigal_erik »

notatoad wrote: post #45
azakai wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To some (significant) degree, but you never know that no one else has patents on a technology. That's exactly what is so messed up with software patents.

On any specific technology, you absolutely can know that no one else has patents on it. That is the responsibility of the patent office: to grant exclusive rights to an 'invention'. you cannot be held liable for infringement of anything you have a license for. In this case though, Microsoft only has patents on part of the algorithm, so it is theoretically possible that other parts of the algorithm are covered by othe…

It's rare, but I remember reading that USPTO has mistakenly issued conflicting patents. Legally, any publication is enough to bar others' patents, they're just not good at finding anything in the software literature, so having your own patent sort of rubs examiners' noses in it.

Re: Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

#48

Post by mtgx »

wmf wrote: post #38
SiVal wrote: post #34

Where is Google in all this? They must surely be aware of all such IETF projects. I can understand why Apple wasn't mentioned (Apple Island is a world unto itself to the maximum extent possible), but Google has usually pursued the opposite strategy. This seems like the sort of thing they would get behind unless there is some issue I'm unaware of, and it seems as though Mozilla would mention Google in this infomercial…

Google has a big NIH conflict of interest since they bought GIPS. "On the audio side, we will initially support iSAC, iLBC, G.711, and DTMF, with iSAC being the default. It is a royalty free wideband codec optimized for speech, open sourced at webrtc.org." http://blog.chromium.org/2012/04/chromes-webrtc-roadmap.html It looks like somebody volunteered to add Opus to Chrome and was met with silence: https://groups.goog…

So which is better, iSAC or Opus?

Re: Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

#49

Post by mtgx »

taligent wrote: post #36
SiVal wrote: post #34

Where is Google in all this? They must surely be aware of all such IETF projects. I can understand why Apple wasn't mentioned (Apple Island is a world unto itself to the maximum extent possible), but Google has usually pursued the opposite strategy. This seems like the sort of thing they would get behind unless there is some issue I'm unaware of, and it seems as though Mozilla would mention Google in this infomercial…

Exactly that Apple Island with their industry standard H.264 and AAC files. And Google with their proprietary WebM.

WebM is not proprietary. It's open source. You can find it here:

http://www.webmproject.org/

Re: Firefox Beta 15 supports the new Opus audio format

#50

Post by mtgx »

shmerl wrote: post #3

Luckily it's going to be W3C standard, and Apple and MS won't be able to use their lame excuses to avoid implementing it in their browsers, like they did for Vorbis, VP8 and etc.

Why exactly couldn't Apple use the very same lame excuse it used against WebM and pro-h.264?
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