Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza • Hacker News Board

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#41

Post by xg15 » Wed, Jan 15, 2025, 10:41 PM UTC

flumpcakes wrote: post #28

verdverm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel has likely also created multiple generations of anger and hate against themselves. They may have reduced the likelihood of another Oct 7 in the near term, but 50 years is not something I would count on

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And yet there is the speech by Jordan's foreign minister who makes clear that the Arab states are interested in relations with Israel - as a normal state and as part of a two-state solution with mutual sovereignty, but not with a state that behaves as if they had some divine right to dominate the entire region.

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-10-02/ty-article-opinio...

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#42

Post by jedimind » Wed, Jan 15, 2025, 10:41 PM UTC

throwaway7783 wrote: post #20

null_deref wrote: post #6

Yes, eventually. I have tears in my eyes. Enduring more than a year with a preposterous populist government and endless deaths, this nightmare is finally over.

100% support ceasefire. 100% agree Israel overdid it. 100% support Hamas must cease to exist. Don't leave that last part out

The resistance will not cease to exist until the occupation ceases to exist. Don't leave that last part out

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#43

Post by throwaway7783 » Wed, Jan 15, 2025, 10:41 PM UTC

9283409232 wrote: post #19

ars wrote: post #4

I credit Trump's pressure on Hamas - Hamas eventually softened a lot of their positions because they realized they had no choice. And I wish Biden had done a better job of supporting Israel, this war could have ended a lot sooner if Hamas had realized that the entire world was pressuring them to surrender. Instead the message got diluted with support for Palestinians, which Hamas interpreted as support for themselves…

> Did you hear a single call by any country for Hamas to surrender? I didn't. US, UK, France, Germany, Italy in a joint message: https://it.usembassy.gov/joint-statement-on-israel/ Spain: https://www.politico.eu/article/pedro-sanchez-spain-humanita... Italy, France, Germany ask for EU sanctions to force Hamas surrender: https://www.reuters.com/world/italy-france-germany-call-ad-h... Secretary of State calls out other…

Except for the Sec of State no other article is calling for a surrender.

The first one condemns the attacks two days after. The second one is "Humanitarian cease-fire", and condemning Hamas for attacks - Not a call to surrender. The third one is sanctions.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#44

Post by gitdowndirty » Wed, Jan 15, 2025, 10:41 PM UTC

steviedotboston wrote: post #15

coob wrote: post #2

Are either Israelis or Gazans more secure than when this war began? What has either side achieved?

Hamas has been considerably weakened. Their arsenal of rockets and weapons is depleted. At the beginning of the war thousands of rockets were being shot into Israel and now there are very few and the ones that are are quite crude. Hezbollah entered the war immediately and said the only way they would exit is if Hamas exists. Israel retaliated, killed their leader, decimated their forces, and negotiated a ceasefire th…

Not only is Hamas weakened, Hamas' and Iran's supporter (China, Russia) has been severely weakened compared to the start of the conflict. Russia is in a stalemate in the Ukraine invasion, and has lost significant economic and military resources since. Russia also lost significant influence in Middle East, with the Assad regime fall. China is a severe economic decline. Also, China distanced itself from Iran, most likely due to wanting to not get sanctioned by US and Europe. https://thediplomat.com/2024/11/china-is-recalculating-its-m....

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#45

Post by quelsolaar » Wed, Jan 15, 2025, 10:41 PM UTC

Workaccount2 wrote: post #39

So I suppose it's just back to the status quo? What has really changed that will make a difference in 2-3 years from now? Israel has sowed a whole fresh generation of "I will sacrifice everything to wipe Israel" Palestinian youth.

Gaza has changed.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#46

Post by cbeach » Wed, Jan 15, 2025, 10:42 PM UTC

verdverm wrote: post #22

steviedotboston wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamas has been considerably weakened. Their arsenal of rockets and weapons is depleted. At the beginning of the war thousands of rockets were being shot into Israel and now there are very few and the ones that are are quite crude. Hezbollah entered the war immediately and said the only way they would exit is if Hamas exists. Israel retaliated, killed their leader, decimated their forces, and negotiated a ceasefire th…

Israel has likely also created multiple generations of anger and hate against themselves. They may have reduced the likelihood of another Oct 7 in the near term, but 50 years is not something I would count on

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#47

Post by whatshisface » Wed, Jan 15, 2025, 10:42 PM UTC

breppp wrote: post #40

verdverm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel has likely also created multiple generations of anger and hate against themselves. They may have reduced the likelihood of another Oct 7 in the near term, but 50 years is not something I would count on

Probably the most efficient way of creating multiple generations of anger and hate is letting a radical terrorist movement control 2 million people, which can completely mold the education curriculum and free to draft anyone to their quasi-army So whatever it has done, it cannot possibly be worse than pre-war

What could a radical terrorist organization possibily tell Gazans about what happened to their parents that sounds worse than the truth?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#48

Post by YZF » Wed, Jan 15, 2025, 10:42 PM UTC

nick_ wrote: post #24

bpodgursky wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you concretely suggest what each side should have done at some point in time, to avoid being where we are now? I feel like you're making a rhetorical statement that's hard to map to specific actions.

Oh please. Israelis could have voted in a different party/leader that would have taken another path. West Bank settlement expansions could have been halted and reversed (to a sensible degree of course). These are bread and butter suggestions that everyone who thinks honestly about this conflict sees clearly. There are of course many more suggestions I didn't state. To pretend that there was just no way to avoid this…

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#49

Post by zazazache » Wed, Jan 15, 2025, 10:43 PM UTC

throwaway7783 wrote: post #20

null_deref wrote: post #6

Yes, eventually. I have tears in my eyes. Enduring more than a year with a preposterous populist government and endless deaths, this nightmare is finally over.

100% support ceasefire. 100% agree Israel overdid it. 100% support Hamas must cease to exist. Don't leave that last part out

What is different from Hamas right to exist compared to the IDF or Likud? Hamas certainly has less blood on their hands!

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#50

Post by xg15 » Wed, Jan 15, 2025, 10:43 PM UTC

quelsolaar wrote: post #45

Workaccount2 wrote: post #39

So I suppose it's just back to the status quo? What has really changed that will make a difference in 2-3 years from now? Israel has sowed a whole fresh generation of "I will sacrifice everything to wipe Israel" Palestinian youth.

Gaza has changed.

Quite literally.