Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers • Hacker News Board

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#41

Post by _cenw » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 4:13 PM UTC

moomin wrote: post #15

hombre_fatal wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Texas government decided that red light cameras can't enforce the law. That's how car-brained we are. Muh privacy or something.

Ironically, the right to privacy was questioned by Alito when he helped nullify Roe v Wade. It will be "interesting" to see what other things we consider private aren't private in the eyes of this court. And even more "interesting" to see the converse.

We have a joke over here in Germany that if you want to commit a crime, be sure to do it in a car - keeps you out of prison.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#42

Post by Ensorceled » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 4:14 PM UTC

sjg1729 wrote: post #10

bedobi wrote: post #2

This is a solved problem and it's astonishing the world hasn't just adopted the Dutch traffic engineering standards outright. It's FASTER for cars and safer for people.

Which standards are you referring to?

They are literally referring to the "Dutch traffic engineering standards" when they say "Dutch traffic engineering standards"

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#43

Post by CalRobert » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 4:14 PM UTC

cosmotic wrote: post #20

munchler wrote: post #11

> I captured two drivers ripping through red lights in that short span Video actually shows two cars entering the intersection on yellow lights, which is legal. The rest of the article seems similarly exaggerated. ---- Edit: For those who disagree, please be aware that the stop lines are out of frame, so both cars are already in the intersection before they're visible on the video. You can get a better picture of wha…

Not only legal, but safer than slamming on one's breaks.

Generally speaking if you're going the speed limit you don't need to "slam on your breaks (sic)" to stop before a light turns red unless you didn't have enough time to clear the intersection anyway.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#44

Post by potato3732842 » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 4:14 PM UTC

jagged-chisel wrote: post #33

kaonwarb wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just rewatched and agree they both entered on orange, which is legal. This clear misinterpretation makes me question the author's take as a whole. Did they consider that cars also regularly run stop signs? Is it possible that this is, in fact, safer for pedestrians, albeit more frustrating while waiting?

OT, but it fired me up a bit - people that enter the intersection on green or orange awaiting a break to turn left. And then don’t clear the intersection on red. Now they’re in everyone’s way. How do you get them to understand they’ve already “run the light” and just need to move?

Would you rather they floor it and beat the straight through traffic when the light turns green? 1-2 cars entering the intersection and then getting through when traffic clears on the red is less worse than the alternative.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#45

Post by smileysteve » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 4:14 PM UTC

giamma wrote: post #17

alkonaut wrote: post #5

Knew before I clicked: it's a flat 4-way intersection of two large-ish streets where there is ample space for something else. Hint: draw a small circle in the middle of the intersection and take down the damn stop signs.

We should aim at better drivers rather than better intersections, but bad drivers are everywhere. Years ago I worked in a building on the side of a long straight road. The road ended with a blind curve to the right and 100m before the blind curve there was a pedestrian crossing. Even though all drivers knew they would need to brake for the blind curve (it was visible and there were signs) the majority of them used to…

The bright side of roundabouts and (curbs) annd curves is that they create better (more cautious, observing) drivers, with minor consequences (like hitting a curb).

For lowering the high speed, we can also stack roundabouts, curbs (ie diverge and coverage the road).

The other positive of raised curbs is that we can add shrubbery as a natural traffic barrier, and there are some nice safety impacts from this too, such as reduced road runoff / flash flooding - and environmental factors like shade and cooling.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#46

Post by inetknght » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 4:14 PM UTC

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #36

rcpt wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about roundabouts? Those are a nightmare for pedestrians

Roundabouts aren't perfect but they greatly reduce the speed of traffic at the crossing point (while increasing the overall throughput of the intersection). Without looking up statistics (and I'd love to be proven wrong here), I'd be willing to guess that roundabouts may result in some marginal increase in minor accidents but massively reduces fatalities or accidents that leave the pedestrian in the ICU. Additionally…

1-lane roundabouts are OK

More than 1-lane and they're a disaster waiting to happen

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#47

Post by itishappy » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 4:15 PM UTC

potato3732842 wrote: post #25

As a pedestrian I will take a busy light controlled intersection with a pedestrian scramble type walk signal over a busy 4-way stop where every single time. With the 4-way stop there is never a time in the cycle when all traffic is stopped. The drivers who are present are continuously paying attention to what other drivers are doing which robs them of situational awareness to note pedestrians. You can try and time it…

> With the 4-way stop there is never a time when all traffic is stopped and the drivers are always paying attention to what other drivers are doing. With the walk signal there is a brief moment in time when the drivers are doing nothing but waiting for you and are all stopped so you as a pedestrian can account for them in preparation just before you get your signal and make your move.

That's... not true? With light traffic a 4 way stop should have no cars at all at it most of the time, leaving pedestrians with the right of way, whereas with a traffic light there will always be a road with priority until a pedestrian hits the button. Requiring cars to pay attention to the condition of the intersection is the explicit design goal.

This was laid out very clearly in the article we just read.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#48

Post by DHPersonal » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 4:15 PM UTC

jagged-chisel wrote: post #33

kaonwarb wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just rewatched and agree they both entered on orange, which is legal. This clear misinterpretation makes me question the author's take as a whole. Did they consider that cars also regularly run stop signs? Is it possible that this is, in fact, safer for pedestrians, albeit more frustrating while waiting?

OT, but it fired me up a bit - people that enter the intersection on green or orange awaiting a break to turn left. And then don’t clear the intersection on red. Now they’re in everyone’s way. How do you get them to understand they’ve already “run the light” and just need to move?

I remember my father telling me that was how it was supposed to be done, as the yellow light for oncoming traffic would convince them to stop and give you the time to complete the left turn. It only worked when they weren't also running the yellow light! These days I prefer waiting to turn so that I'm not stuck out in the middle of the intersection when the traffic light changes.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#49

Post by sitkack » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 4:15 PM UTC

1970-01-01 wrote: post #21

hombre_fatal wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think pedestrians and cyclists don't realize how car dominant we are?

Correct. They expect safe walking and biking infra to fall from the sky and complain online when it does not.

You uncharitably speak for all pedestrians.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#50

Post by SoftTalker » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 4:15 PM UTC

affinepplan wrote: post #34

1970-01-01 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. They expect safe walking and biking infra to fall from the sky and complain online when it does not.

this is a very uncharitable characterization of communities' desires for safe, quiet, and walkable/bikeable neighborhoods

It does sometimes seem that they think they should be able to walk/bike without concern for their own safety. I see pedestrians step into traffic and bicycles blow traffic signals and stop signs all the time. Safety and situational awareness is everyone's responsibility.