Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Northeastern's redesign of the CS curriculum

huntnewsnu.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 189 posts

Re: Northeastern's redesign of the CS curriculum

#41

Post by shmorkin »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #26

I went to Caltech when they were contemplating similar things in the CS curriculum, although the normal curriculum was less radical than Northeastern's seems to be. There is a tension here that is being understated which is that people of every major now take the intro-level CS class because programming is integral to everything. Teaching algorithm design in that class is not particularly useful to a biologist who ju…

This exists already at Northeastern. They have a data science major and minor with a much more 'practical' intro sequence that teaches in Python. I actually TA'd for it, and many of the students were business or life sciences majors going for a data science minor. It even came with a 1-credit practicum geared towards specific domains, which students could choose from.

Re: Northeastern's redesign of the CS curriculum

#42

Post by soegaard »

deactivatedexp wrote: post #32

i'm a dropout just do horrible coding for fun can anyone explain why CS programs are adamant about not teaching on the job skills? like databases, web, embedded, security plus theory

Most Computer Science programs teach principles.

The ideas behind a database is more important than the the concrete database used. If the ideas are taught, then the students can adapt when the fashion changes.

So instead of teaching something that you can use on your first job, they teach principles you can use your entire career. And times does change.

Remember the good old languages Fortran, Algol 60 etc. That's where the jobs were...

Re: Northeastern's redesign of the CS curriculum

#43

Post by mjdiloreto »

The end of an era. This is nothing less than a travesty honestly. The current (now former) curriculum at NEU was uniquely exceptional, and now it will be conformingly adequate. Anyone who complained about the difficulty or lack of "job-market applicability" of the Fundies classes entirely missed the forest for the trees. The point is the design _process_, and using Racket forced this. It also demonstrated the magic that is possible with computer science. The Dr. Racket editor has features that do not exist in any other editor (e.g. visually tracing references, and so much more). The teaching language just got out of the way and let professors teach the essentials of program design, without the burden of language idiosyncrasies. My mind was honestly blown when Olin Shivers coded the Y combinator directly and showed us how to add recursion to a language. It felt like having occult knowledge, and it made me an acolyte to computer science. I mourn the loss of this curriculum for future students, especially considering the premium price tag they now pay.

Re: Northeastern's redesign of the CS curriculum

#44

Post by NickNaraghi »

Exciting to see this on HN! As a ‘15 NU alum that took the CS program & third time founder, I support the change.

Fundies 1 and 2 were great, but I have always felt that the amount of delayed gratification in NU’s CS program was much too long and incongruent with the university’s focus on experiential learning. I wanted to get my hands dirty and build something and the whole curriculum felt too academic.

Northeastern CS is world class at compilers and programming language research, so I always understood that the undergrad program would tend to be academic as a trickle down effect.

It’s a spectrum with tradeoffs, so I think balance is key. But happy to see the pendulum swing a bit and think it will be good for new grads, especially as more coding work becomes automated.

Re: Northeastern's redesign of the CS curriculum

#45

Post by shmorkin »

stevev wrote: post #35

I’m wondering if neighboring competitor schools who offer python classes are the reason for the change since more students would actually consider attending a different school due to having a stronger post experience and skills gained.

I don't think Northeastern is worried about attracting applicants, they were the 8th most applied-to school in the US last year, with nearly 100K applicants. And CS is one of their most popular programs.

I think the more likely cause is pressure from their co-op program's partner employers to make the intro curriculum more 'practical' (i.e. outsourcing training from the employer to school). It's beneficial in the short-term but IMO a loss in the long-term, Northeastern is a university not a bootcamp.

Re: Northeastern's redesign of the CS curriculum

#46

Post by ramses0 »

deactivatedexp wrote: post #32

i'm a dropout just do horrible coding for fun can anyone explain why CS programs are adamant about not teaching on the job skills? like databases, web, embedded, security plus theory

I graduated with a degree in CS. Checking back with my university they'd added a degree in Software Engineering.

CS (traditionally) is more about algorithms, limits, growth. There's a bunch of complexity in even just understanding and calculating what a computer can do.

The Software Engineering degree makes so much sense if you're studying about how libraries can be tied together, upgraded, unit/integration testing, container and source code management, etc.

They are truly different disciplines at this point.

Re: Northeastern's redesign of the CS curriculum

#47

Post by layer8 »

klooney wrote: post #40
tiffanyh wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a tension here that is being understated which is that people of every major now take the intro-level CS class because programming is integral to everything. Why doesn’t the CS department have a different intro class for CS majors and non-CS majors. That’s a common practice in the mathematics, physics, etc. departments. (To have harder intro classes for the students majoring in your department vs those who…

At my university, they did, I don't think it's that uncommon.

Same here. The CS curriculum was theory-heavy (as it should be), and there were purely practical programming courses for the other faculties.

Re: Northeastern's redesign of the CS curriculum

#48

Post by robrenaud »

jcgrillo wrote: post #14
dickfickling wrote: post #4

I attended Northeastern from 2010-2013. Fundies (the freshman-level functional programming courses) was fundamental (ha) to my growth as a software developer. It taught me how to reason about data and how to design programs (the literal name of the textbook). I know a lot of students hated it—frankly those were mostly the students that it seemed were only doing computer science programs because they’d heard they coul…

> I know a lot of students hated it That's a good thing . I don't know whether your assertion about the breakdown between "real nerds" and the other camp is accurate or not, but I think this point stands on its own regardless--learning is hard . It's uncomfortable . It's unpleasant . If it isn't, you're not being pushed hard enough. So what's the point of asking students how they feel about it? Why make strategic dec…

My best learning was difficult, whole mind encompassing, and incredibly fun.

If you can get college students idle brains curiously contemplating the how and why of the subject, that's when the tuition is really worth it.

Re: Northeastern's redesign of the CS curriculum

#50

Post by awscherb »

mjdiloreto wrote: post #43

The end of an era. This is nothing less than a travesty honestly. The current (now former) curriculum at NEU was uniquely exceptional, and now it will be conformingly adequate. Anyone who complained about the difficulty or lack of "job-market applicability" of the Fundies classes entirely missed the forest for the trees. The point is the design _process_, and using Racket forced this. It also demonstrated the magic t…

I always enjoy seeing Olin Shivers name come up in threads about Northeastern. I had him for Fundies and have many fond memories of his lectures, I was truly inspired. It's no exaggeration to say that class and those lectures helped me find a passion and a career I enjoy. It's a shame they're phasing out Fundies, hopefully whatever they come up with will still be able to have that same impact on young students.
Post reply on HN