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Phi 4 available on Ollama

ollama.com

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Re: Phi 4 available on Ollama

#41

Post by kyriakos »

lolinder wrote: post #23
PittleyDunkin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s odd that MS is releasing models they are competitors to OA. > I think the strategy is now offer cheap and performant infra to run the models. Is this not what microsoft is doing? What can microsoft possibly lose by releasing a model?

That's exactly what they're saying: it's interesting that Microsoft came to the same conclusion that Meta did, that models are generally not worth keeping locked down. It suggests that OpenAI has a very fragile business model, given that they're wholly dependent on large providers for the infra, which is apparently the valuable part of the equation.

I use OpenAI not just because it has decent models that work decently by default but because I don't need to care on how to setup a model on a cloud provider and their API is straight forward. They are quite affordable too (e.g. TTS is one of the cheapest I found for its quality)

I could switch to a different provider if I needed to maybe with cheaper pricing or better models but that doesn't mean OpenAI doesn't offer a "product".

Re: Phi 4 available on Ollama

#43

Post by mlepath »

crorella wrote: post #9

It’s odd that MS is releasing models they are competitors to OA. This reinforce the idea that there is no real strategic advantage in owning a model. I think the strategy is now offer cheap and performant infra to run the models.

> This reinforce the idea that there is no real strategic advantage in owning a model

For these models probably no. But for proprietary things that are mission critical and purpose-built (think Adobe Creative Suite) the calculus is very different.

MS, Google, Amazon all win from infra for open source models. I have no idea what game Meta is playing

Re: Phi 4 available on Ollama

#44

Post by solarkraft »

blackqueeriroh wrote: post #40
bongodongobob wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What product? A chat window? I'm not trying to be rude btw, but if the product isn't the LLM itself, that's all they have.

Interesting, so apparently UI and UX and responsiveness and polish all don’t matter for products? We can just ship shittily drawn interfaces now?

They aren’t that good. It’s mostly well rounded now, but on nacOS it’s often impossible to select parts of code sections.

Re: Phi 4 available on Ollama

#45

Post by chefandy »

mlepath wrote: post #43
crorella wrote: post #9

It’s odd that MS is releasing models they are competitors to OA. This reinforce the idea that there is no real strategic advantage in owning a model. I think the strategy is now offer cheap and performant infra to run the models.

> This reinforce the idea that there is no real strategic advantage in owning a model For these models probably no. But for proprietary things that are mission critical and purpose-built (think Adobe Creative Suite) the calculus is very different. MS, Google, Amazon all win from infra for open source models. I have no idea what game Meta is playing

> I have no idea what game Meta is playing

Based on their business moves in recent history, I’d guess most of them are playing Farmville.

Re: Phi 4 available on Ollama

#46

Post by yard2010 »

sgk284 wrote: post #27

Over the holidays, we published a post[1] on using high-precision few-shot examples to get `gpt-4o-mini` to perform similar to `gpt-4o`. I just re-ran that same experiment, but swapped out `gpt-4o-mini` with `phi-4`. `phi-4` really blew me away in terms of learning from few-shots. It measured as being 97% consistent with `gpt-4o` when using high-precision few-shots! Without the few-shots, it was only 37%. That's a hu…

This is really nice. I loved the detailed process and I'm definitely gonna use it. One nit though: I didn't understand what the graphs mean, maybe you should add the axes names.

Re: Phi 4 available on Ollama

#47

Post by vincent_s »

sgk284 wrote: post #27

Over the holidays, we published a post[1] on using high-precision few-shot examples to get `gpt-4o-mini` to perform similar to `gpt-4o`. I just re-ran that same experiment, but swapped out `gpt-4o-mini` with `phi-4`. `phi-4` really blew me away in terms of learning from few-shots. It measured as being 97% consistent with `gpt-4o` when using high-precision few-shots! Without the few-shots, it was only 37%. That's a hu…

Have you also tried using the large model as FSKD model?

Re: Phi 4 available on Ollama

#48

Post by kaonwarb »

bongodongobob wrote: post #36
krick wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, OpenAI's products are not really models, they are... products. So it's debatable if they really do have anything special. I don't really think they do, because to me it seemed pretty much since GPT-1, that having callbacks to run python and query google, having "inner dialog" before summarizing an answer and a dozen more simple improvements like this are quite obvious things to do, that nobody just actual…

What product? A chat window? I'm not trying to be rude btw, but if the product isn't the LLM itself, that's all they have.

I regularly use several features within ChatGPT that are well beyond a chat window. Advanced Voice, DALL-E integration, Projects, and GPTs (mostly a couple private ones I created for my own use). There are other features that I don't use, like Canvas. Perhaps the sum of these still isn't an impressive product in your eyes, but it's surely more than just a chat window.

Re: Phi 4 available on Ollama

#49

Post by segmondy »

lolinder wrote: post #34
mythz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah we evaluated several models for grading ~1 year ago and concluded Mixtral was the best choice for us, as it was the best model yielding the best results that we could self-host and distribute the load of grading 1.2M+ answers over several GPU Servers. We would have liked to pick a neutral model like Gemini which was fast, reliable and low cost, unfortunately it gave too many poor answers good grades [1]. If we h…

Honestly, the fact that you used an LLM to grade the answers at all is enough to make me discount your results entirely. That it showed obvious preference to the model with which it shares weights is just a symptom of the core problem, which is that you had to pick a model to trust before you even ran the benchmarks. The only judges that matter at this stage are humans. Maybe someday when we have models that humans a…

Yup, I did an experiment a long time ago, where I wanted best of 2. I had Wizard, Mistral & Llama. They would generate responses and I would pass the response to all 3 models to vote. I would pass it in to a new prompt without reference to previous prompt, 95%+ of the time, they all voted for their own response even when it was clear there was a better response. LLM as a judge is a joke.

Re: Phi 4 available on Ollama

#50

Post by emidoots »

chefandy wrote: post #45
mlepath wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This reinforce the idea that there is no real strategic advantage in owning a model For these models probably no. But for proprietary things that are mission critical and purpose-built (think Adobe Creative Suite) the calculus is very different. MS, Google, Amazon all win from infra for open source models. I have no idea what game Meta is playing

> I have no idea what game Meta is playing Based on their business moves in recent history, I’d guess most of them are playing Farmville.

Meta's entire business model is to own users and their content.

Whether it be Facebook, Instagram, Threads, Messenger, WhatsApp, etc. their focus is to acquire users, keep them in their platforms, and own their content - because /human attention is fundamentally valuable/.

Meta owns 40% of the most popular social media platforms today, but their attention economies face great threats: YouTube, TikTok, Telegram, WeChat, and many more threaten to unseat them every year.

Most importantly, the quality of content on these platforms greatly influences their popularity. If Meta can accelerate AI development in all forms, then it means the content quality across all apps/platforms can be equalized - video on YouTube or TikTok will be no more high quality than on Facebook or Instagram. Messages on Threads will be no more engaging than that on Twitter. Their recent experiments with AI generated profiles[0] signals this is the case.

Once content quality - and luring creators to your platform - are neutralized as business challenges that affect end users lurking on the platform and how effectively they can be retained, then it becomes easier for Meta to retain any user that enters their platforms and gain an effective attention monopoly without needing to continue to buy apps that could otherwise succeed theirs.

And so, it is in their benefit to give away their models 'for free', 'speed up' the industry's development efforts in general, de-risk other companies surpassing their efforts, etc.

[0] https://thebaynet.com/meta-faces-backlash-over-ai-generated-...

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