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OpenAI is Visa – Buttering up the government to retain a monopoly

sherwood.news

41–50 of 171 posts

Re: OpenAI is Visa – Buttering up the government to retain a monopoly

#41
post #4

> What Visa did in response recently got it sued by the Justice Department, which accused Visa of using aggressive tactics with companies like CostcoCOST $956.14 (-0.29%) and AppleAAPL $258.99 (0.35%) to guarantee that a competitive payment network would not develop, The Wall Street Journal reported. I don't buy the reasoning as to how Visa built a moat. From the WSJ article linked in the article: >> Visa offered to…

You can have a Mastercard, but now if you want to shop at Costco with credit you have to have a Visa. Not having a Visa card is much less of an option for many individual customers, and not accepting Visa is much less of an option for other merchants.

Re: OpenAI is Visa – Buttering up the government to retain a monopoly

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be interested in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42514633 In fairness, OpenAI has been leading benchmarks for the most part, but open source is never more than 3-6 months behind.

Just because some one has a slightly better product doesn’t mean they have a monopoly. That’s like saying McDonalds has a monopoly because they have better fries. It’s just not true in any part of the statement

They have a monopoly on the name McDonalds.

If McDonalds had a fry machine and lobbied that making fries anyone other way was dangerous and only they should be allowed to use the fry machine that would more align with this situation.

It's not a monopoly but trying hard to get a government based one.

Re: OpenAI is Visa – Buttering up the government to retain a monopoly

#43
post #4

> What Visa did in response recently got it sued by the Justice Department, which accused Visa of using aggressive tactics with companies like CostcoCOST $956.14 (-0.29%) and AppleAAPL $258.99 (0.35%) to guarantee that a competitive payment network would not develop, The Wall Street Journal reported. I don't buy the reasoning as to how Visa built a moat. From the WSJ article linked in the article: >> Visa offered to…

You can have a Mastercard, but now if you want to shop at Costco with credit you have to have a Visa. Not having a Visa card is much less of an option for many individual customers, and not accepting Visa is much less of an option for other merchants.

> You can have a Mastercard, but now if you want to shop at Costco with credit you have to have a Visa.

Or you simply shop at Costco without a credit card, and pay cash instead. :-)

Re: OpenAI is Visa – Buttering up the government to retain a monopoly

#44

Doesn't explain what regulations Visa pushed for and got which helped it maintain its monopoly. Would be helpful to have some concrete examples of what it did and what OpenAI is trying to do. The point of the article sounds plausible, but doesn't really present any evidence to support it. Also OpenAI in no way has a monopoly of the kind that Visa/MC has.

Yea, I don't want to defend Visa, but a lot of their dominance came from network effects. Merchants want to accept Visa because it's what people have in their wallet. Customers want Visa because it's what merchants accept. That cycle keeps reinforcing itself.

That's not to say that Visa hasn't worked toward favorable regulations, but the biggest problem with alternative payment networks (to Visa/MC/Discover/AMEX) is that most retailers don't take them which means most customers don't want to set them up. If most customers don't have those payment methods, there's little incentive for a merchant to setup those payment methods.

With OpenAI, there isn't the same network effect. I don't care what LLM you're using or what LLM Walmart or anyone else is using. If Anthropic or Google start offering better/cheaper LLMs, companies can simply switch over. Maybe some integrations will need to be rewritten, but that's a lot easier than getting hundreds of millions of customers to sign up for something new. Plus, companies like Google are simply implementing the OpenAI API so that integrations don't have to be rewritten.

By contrast, if another company launches a payment network, it isn't enough just to convince a company to switch. You need to convince millions of consumers to switch - which would require convincing enough companies to switch.

Re: OpenAI is Visa – Buttering up the government to retain a monopoly

#45
post #5

There is no way in which the little stock price boxes helped me understand or appreciate this article

The news source is owned by Robinhood. The stock boxes are to get you into the product buying stock.

It should also be noted that those elements are dynamic and update in pseudo-real-time. In case my boy is still trying to make sense of them in the context of the article, lol.

Re: OpenAI is Visa – Buttering up the government to retain a monopoly

#46
post #44

Doesn't explain what regulations Visa pushed for and got which helped it maintain its monopoly. Would be helpful to have some concrete examples of what it did and what OpenAI is trying to do. The point of the article sounds plausible, but doesn't really present any evidence to support it. Also OpenAI in no way has a monopoly of the kind that Visa/MC has.

Yea, I don't want to defend Visa, but a lot of their dominance came from network effects. Merchants want to accept Visa because it's what people have in their wallet. Customers want Visa because it's what merchants accept. That cycle keeps reinforcing itself. That's not to say that Visa hasn't worked toward favorable regulations, but the biggest problem with alternative payment networks (to Visa/MC/Discover/AMEX) is…

> but the biggest problem with alternative payment networks (to Visa/MC/Discover/AMEX) is that most retailers don't take them

Who?

I thought it was just like Costco that didn't take Discover/Amex/MC due to Visa contract. Aren't all the credit card terminals pretty much from 3p vendors who support everything including Apple Pay + Square + etc?

Re: OpenAI is Visa – Buttering up the government to retain a monopoly

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have a Mastercard, but now if you want to shop at Costco with credit you have to have a Visa. Not having a Visa card is much less of an option for many individual customers, and not accepting Visa is much less of an option for other merchants.

> You can have a Mastercard, but now if you want to shop at Costco with credit you have to have a Visa. Or you simply shop at Costco without a credit card, and pay cash instead. :-)

And simply pay 1-2% more than everyone else using a Visa card.

Re: OpenAI is Visa – Buttering up the government to retain a monopoly

#48
post #24

It was a great marketing strategy, imo, to say AI is so scary and impressive and awful it needs to be regulated immediately. Helps them look impressive and good willed & kills all competitors.

So you’re saying there’s no competitors to ClosedAI? How do you arrive at that conclusion?

Not saying there are zero, but I think Sam's publicity tour bolstered the EU AI Act and the white house exec order, both of which have really hurt EU AI and small AI companies respectively

Re: OpenAI is Visa – Buttering up the government to retain a monopoly

#49
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Whataboutism is not a counterpoint 2) Half of these are completely nonsensical and apples and oranges to the topic.

It's not whataboutism. Whataboutism would be 'what about children dying in Darfur?' This is an explanation that this practice is normal in a competitive environment and trying to prevent exclusive deals is silly if you extrapolate it to other domains In other words, create a rule or principal that's clear and not specific to this situation. Because right now the principal seems to be exclusive deals between businesse…

The fact that monopolistic agreements are common place doesn't make them competitive.

As with every single time something monopolistic comes up on HN. You can squash one instance of it at a time; you do not need to address every single one in a fell swoop.

Re: OpenAI is Visa – Buttering up the government to retain a monopoly

#50
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because some one has a slightly better product doesn’t mean they have a monopoly. That’s like saying McDonalds has a monopoly because they have better fries. It’s just not true in any part of the statement

They have a monopoly on the name McDonalds. If McDonalds had a fry machine and lobbied that making fries anyone other way was dangerous and only they should be allowed to use the fry machine that would more align with this situation. It's not a monopoly but trying hard to get a government based one.

You're stretching so far to attempt to make a point you're now trying to equate a trade mark as a monopoly. These are totally different concepts and you've totally lost the plot with this analogy
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