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Polyamory doesn't liberate; monogamy doesn't protect

carsonogenic.substack.com

41–50 of 296 posts

Re: Polyamory doesn't liberate; monogamy doesn't protect

#41
post #30

Fantastic article, but as a monogamous married father of 4, I think the author misses the fundamental point of all relationships... And the point of life itself: Reproduction. The primary drive of every living creature from whales to amoeba is to procreate. Having children is WHY we have a sex drive and an urge to have relationships in the first place. Tons of studies show children require stability in the relationsh…

I generally agree with what you are saying, but you need to add "and not fighting" to "long term committed parents who are always there." Not fighting is so important that sometimes the parents need to split up so they can stop fighting. They can still be committed parents who are always there for the kids while no longer in a relationship with each other and the kids will do well.

I really really wish someone had told me that a long time ago, and while I'm wishing I wish someone would have told my children's grandparents that an even longer time ago.

Re: Polyamory doesn't liberate; monogamy doesn't protect

#43
I liked this, but I feel like it glosses over a significant dynamic that discolors both sides of the mono/poly split, which is "people not living the life they want".

Not that it's literally "coercive" -- they're not being forced to be in that relationship in any real sense. But the dynamic I often observe (well, infer from observations) is that a person would really like to monogamous or polyamorous (or a different kind of polyamorous---just, they want to be in a different status) but feels they aren't allowed to assert what they want from their partner(s), and a result is being somewhat "degraded" by the status of their relationship. They may even believe they are happy with everything, because it's the best thing they can feel they can get, but often (I suspect) there's an arrangement they would be much happier with, if they could bring themselves to insist on it.

After all a person ought to aspire to be physically and emotionally secure enough to assert what they need from their partners, even if that risks the partner leaving them, and they ought to be able to find partnerships in which their partner respects them enough to compromise or negotiate if it is something they truly need.

But I suspect a lot of people aren't there, and being mono/poly is often a "workaround": if you don't believe you can fully assert the relationship you want, sometimes you can get half of it by becoming monogamous/polyamorous instead even if it's not truly your preference. And maybe that lets you avoid the issue, sometimes for years. But it's never as as good as being able to get what you truly want.

(Occasionally I mention this vibe to people and they react negatively---"who are you to question other people's decisions?", they say. And at one level they're right, because yes, everyone out there is pretty much day-to-day making the best decision they can see to make for themselves, so if they're coping with their world by being in a certain kind of relationship, it's not really our place to doubt them.

But on the other hand, you can sense when someone is not living their best life, whether it be living the relationship they want or having the job / friends / beliefs / sexuality / gender that they want. You can't be sure, but these things do show a bit through cracks in the way that people talk and act. So I think it's fair to observe this phenomenon and speculate about it, so long as you never push anyone to "admit" to it, or to change before they're ready.)

Re: Polyamory doesn't liberate; monogamy doesn't protect

#44
post #30

Fantastic article, but as a monogamous married father of 4, I think the author misses the fundamental point of all relationships... And the point of life itself: Reproduction. The primary drive of every living creature from whales to amoeba is to procreate. Having children is WHY we have a sex drive and an urge to have relationships in the first place. Tons of studies show children require stability in the relationsh…

I suspect you're being downvoted based on the "purpose of life is reproduction" piece, but I hope people are aware that this part about studies showing that in general Poly parenting leads to worse outcomes for children is spot on

Poly relationships tend to be complicated, and children are not capable of understanding all of the nuance of ethical poly relationships, nevermind the many variations of non-ethical poly relationships. It tends to lead to people who have really screwed up ideas about relationships and attachment issues.

Note that this is not me saying that ethical poly relationships are inherently screwed up. What I'm saying is that from the outside perspective of an immature child, who will likely then go on to mimic what they see modelled without understanding it, that child is going to have screwed up ideas about relationships

Re: Polyamory doesn't liberate; monogamy doesn't protect

#45
post #33
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's talking about a different place and culture than you're in and you're calling it out of touch because it's not familiar to you? Isn't that the point?

[flagged]

Disgust is an interesting response to this experience.

I encourage you to reframe your thoughts in "is they consenting adults?" and then "is this hurting anyone?" if the answers are "yes they're adults and they're not hurting anyone", I encourage you to mind your own business :)

Gay people aren't "shoving things in your face" when they kiss, or can be seen holding hands, or have representation in a book or movies because the author wanted to represent themselves in the media any more than straight people are "shoving things in your face" when they kiss, or can be seen holding hands, etc. Equally, non-monogamous people aren't shoving anything in your face by existing in a way that makes them happy and affirmed. Disgust over other people's choices and lives and the subsequent attempt to squelch that is very anti-liberty.

Re: Polyamory doesn't liberate; monogamy doesn't protect

#47
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having a threesome with your partner and your best friend already qualifies I don't think it does qualify any more than having a one night stand between two single people implies that they are dating This seems to be ignore that Poly implies a relationship, not just sex

How many threesomes with their partner and their best friend would someone have to have before they're polyamorous?

That's probably up to whatever the couple thinks, and has no universally correct answer

It just seems absurd to suggest that a monogamous couple who has one single threesome, one time, and then never again, is now "non-monogamous" forever

Re: Polyamory doesn't liberate; monogamy doesn't protect

#48
post #43

I liked this, but I feel like it glosses over a significant dynamic that discolors both sides of the mono/poly split, which is "people not living the life they want". Not that it's literally "coercive" -- they're not being forced to be in that relationship in any real sense. But the dynamic I often observe (well, infer from observations) is that a person would really like to monogamous or polyamorous (or a different…

Only issue is that when you get what you want, you might be convincing your partner(s) to settle for something they want less. Perhaps the mindset of "best I can get" and finding an acceptable compromise is the way to go.

Re: Polyamory doesn't liberate; monogamy doesn't protect

#49
post #30

Fantastic article, but as a monogamous married father of 4, I think the author misses the fundamental point of all relationships... And the point of life itself: Reproduction. The primary drive of every living creature from whales to amoeba is to procreate. Having children is WHY we have a sex drive and an urge to have relationships in the first place. Tons of studies show children require stability in the relationsh…

> but children need the stability of long term committed parents

You can have long-term, committed throuples, just fine.

Re: Polyamory doesn't liberate; monogamy doesn't protect

#50
post #30

Fantastic article, but as a monogamous married father of 4, I think the author misses the fundamental point of all relationships... And the point of life itself: Reproduction. The primary drive of every living creature from whales to amoeba is to procreate. Having children is WHY we have a sex drive and an urge to have relationships in the first place. Tons of studies show children require stability in the relationsh…

This seems correct, all the happy poly people I know don’t have kids. The ones that do have kids seem to struggle more (a similar level as being a single parent but obviously in different ways).
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