In Defense of Y'All • Hacker News Board

Re: In Defense of Y'All

#41

Post by repeekad » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 8:46 PM UTC

Handprint4469 wrote: post #15

gregw2 wrote: post #11

I tease non-Texans that Texan English is actually superior to normal American English because it supports second-person plural via "Y'all" exactly as mentioned in this article... "you guys" is, to some ears, sexist, and "youse guys" (a New York-ism) is a little too old-school Italian. English lost its second person plural when we switched from Thou (second person singular formal + Thee=second person singular informal…

> "you guys" is sexist is it though?

This reminds me of when they tried to de-gender Spanish and the vast majority of native Latinos hated it, Google still refuses to back down on “Latinx”

Re: In Defense of Y'All

#42

Post by JadeNB » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 8:46 PM UTC

delichon wrote: post #4

Cowabunga rolls more naturally off of my Southern California lips but I've been appropriating y'all in emails, etc. for years, and nobody has complained yet. But I still feel strangely compelled to write "Dear Sirs" at the top of letters to strangers, as there's no formal form of y'all. I usually settle for "Hello".

> But I still feel strangely compelled to write "Dear Sirs" at the top of letters to strangers, as there's no formal form of y'all.

Be the change you want to see, and start with "Dear Y'all."

Re: In Defense of Y'All

#43

Post by gregorymichael » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 8:46 PM UTC

Handprint4469 wrote: post #15

gregw2 wrote: post #11

I tease non-Texans that Texan English is actually superior to normal American English because it supports second-person plural via "Y'all" exactly as mentioned in this article... "you guys" is, to some ears, sexist, and "youse guys" (a New York-ism) is a little too old-school Italian. English lost its second person plural when we switched from Thou (second person singular formal + Thee=second person singular informal…

> "you guys" is sexist is it though?

"Sexist" does feel like too strong a word. "Gendered" perhaps more appropriate.

"Guys" is certainly gendered, so I understand folks feeling like "you guys" is as well.

Re: In Defense of Y'All

#44

Post by fragmede » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 8:47 PM UTC

xnx wrote: post #28

Handprint4469 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "you guys" is sexist is it though?

Though often used in a gender neutral way, "guys" is definitely more male than "y'all".

but the question was about "you guys" which is a distinct phrase that happens to share a word.

Re: In Defense of Y'All

#45

Post by tylerflick » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 8:47 PM UTC

xnx wrote: post #28

Handprint4469 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "you guys" is sexist is it though?

Though often used in a gender neutral way, "guys" is definitely more male than "y'all".

IIRC guy part is actually descended from Guy Faux, which in itself is cool.

(edit: fix grammar)

Re: In Defense of Y'All

#46

Post by hprotagonist » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 8:47 PM UTC

yinz needs worsh. it'll cool y'off.

Re: In Defense of Y'All

#47

Post by gregorymichael » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 8:48 PM UTC

xnx wrote: post #28

Handprint4469 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "you guys" is sexist is it though?

Though often used in a gender neutral way, "guys" is definitely more male than "y'all".

Fun litmus test, if the person challenging this assertion happens to be a straight male: "how many guys have you slept with?"

Re: In Defense of Y'All

#48

Post by nyeah » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 8:49 PM UTC

mauvehaus wrote: post #16

Counter-proposal: Bring back "thou" as the second person singular pronoun and restore "you" to its rightful place as the second person plural pronoun. As with so many of English's warts we can blame the French for the situation we're in. Vous in French is used when addressing a single person formally and conveys respect for the addressee. When class and station were more important following the Norman conquest of Eng…

Meh, might as well try to bring back the Segway. If it's not cool, it won't catch on.

Re: In Defense of Y'All

#49

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 8:50 PM UTC

bwanab wrote: post #5

As a child of Appalachia, I suggest that we all compromise on you'ens, or as it's commonly pronounced yinz.

[deleted]

Re: In Defense of Y'All

#50

Post by hprotagonist » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 8:50 PM UTC

cjs_ac wrote: post #25

gregw2 wrote: post #11

I tease non-Texans that Texan English is actually superior to normal American English because it supports second-person plural via "Y'all" exactly as mentioned in this article... "you guys" is, to some ears, sexist, and "youse guys" (a New York-ism) is a little too old-school Italian. English lost its second person plural when we switched from Thou (second person singular formal + Thee=second person singular informal…

In Early Modern English, you is inherently plural; the singular form is thou . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou

thou is the singular intimate. (compare the tu- form, in french).

You could be singular or plural, but it was always formal. (compare the vous- form, in french)

Knowing this puts a whole new spin on things like the KJV, since as moderns we hear "thou" and think "fancy old timey speech! very formal!" and it is exactly the opposite.

Quakers/Friends chose the thou- form as the preferred form to address everyone; this was part of their scandalous behavior at the time, because it was heard as being entirely improper. (For their part, Quakers figure we're all equal before God, so why pay too much attention to social status? -- and that's not a bad point, really!)