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Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

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Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#41

Post by InDubioProRubio »

rrr_oh_man wrote: post #24
InDubioProRubio wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they can opt out by choice. Bitter infighting ensues in the russian gas addict frack den.

> Bitter infighting ensues in the russian gas addict frack den. Can you explain?

Europe got dependent on cheap russian gas. And it escaped into a bubble of irresponsible behaviour, where the idea that economic realities on the ground mattered itself got faded out. Scream loud and en mass that the rain should go up on the streets- and politicans would promise you the rain would go up, by installing ventilation, physics would not apply to the citizen.

Now the situation is different, and physics applies once more, everybody is screaming, but reality be a harsh mistress- she careth not for the sobbing.

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#42

Post by AndyMcConachie »

guappa wrote: post #39

Swedish government: "We'll only use electric cars!" Also swedish government: "Please don't vacuum or do laundry on cold days when everyone has extra heaters on" Also swedish government: "Everyone's income is public record!" Also swedish government: "We'll give money to people with large homes. The larger the home the more money they will get, because they have more costs for heating." Also swedish government: "This m…

Sounds like The Netherlands. Hypocrisy. White supremacy. Living off of the image of a before time. Corrupt yet not willing to admit it. Blaming everything on immigrants.

I live in NL and a lot of what you say about Sweden sounds very similar.

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#43

Post by willvarfar »

matsemann wrote: post #29
willvarfar wrote: post #11

This blame game is all about supporting current political narratives about nuclear power etc. It's not really about the energy crisis. Sweden's energy mess is all about 'free markets'. Back in the old days the state-run energy companies in Sweden produced an overabundance of electricity, mostly from hydro, making Sweden one of the cheapest electricity countries in the world. It was really common to replace wood burne…

Sounds exactly like Norway. In a sense I don't mind us making billions of selling our electricity to the rest of Europe. Problem is how it's increased prices domestically as well. So government makes billions, people suffer. Most people thus wants to "cut the cables" overseas, but I think a better arrangement would be to share the profits. Which we currently mostly do for homes, by having a subsidized max price, but…

(In Norway is it the government making the money or private energy companies? Where do the profits really go?)

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#44

Post by guappa »

willvarfar wrote: post #14
708145_ wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is still true what she says. Having an interconnected electricity system is problematic when countries like Germany misbehave by having a horrible energy politics. That said, it would had been better in Sweden if they hadn't phased out nuclear too! There is a electricity shortage in south of Sweden where industries are denied establishing new initiatives.

There isn't an energy shortage in Sweden? Sweden has an overproduction of energy, it is just generally generated in the north (where the hydro is) and consumed in the south (where the people are). The 'shortage in the south' is just a political lens for explaining the high prices from the introduction of energy zones in 2011. Before then, there was one price for electricity in Sweden and this worked to the benefit of…

> Sweden has an overproduction of energy

Yes, that's because all the industry had to move because of the no energy in sweden.

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#45

Post by pelorat »

tcfhgj wrote: post #37
alecco wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The green coalition governments across the EU are leaving a huge mess behind. De-industrialization at a pace never seen before at peace times. China is happy to fill in the void.

Maybe this shows the beginning of the end of capitalism. Sustainability is just incompatible with capitalism

Energy shouldn't be produced under capitalism IMO. Decades ago the government owned everything energy, and it was better, just like back when we had real postal services.

Energy, water, sewage treatment. Nationalize all of it.

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#46

Post by guerrilla »

guappa wrote: post #39

Swedish government: "We'll only use electric cars!" Also swedish government: "Please don't vacuum or do laundry on cold days when everyone has extra heaters on" Also swedish government: "Everyone's income is public record!" Also swedish government: "We'll give money to people with large homes. The larger the home the more money they will get, because they have more costs for heating." Also swedish government: "This m…

> Sweden is a very corrupt capitalist country that is still riding the socialist image they created long ago.

What I don't understand is how the people living here can't see this. It's absolutely incomprehensible how naive they are. I don't know how the state could make it any clearer that it does not share their values and is not what people seem to think it is. That Sweden died long ago.

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#47

Post by locallost »

In 2022 Germany's nuclear plants produced 32.8 TWh of electricity, which was 6.4% of the load in that country [1].

Compared to 2022, the spot market prices in Germany are lower in both 2023 (significantly) and 2024. [2]

Seems a bit odd that the nuclear exit in Germany did not create large issues, but is wrecking havoc on Sweden.

[1] https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE...

[2] https://energy-charts.info/charts/price_average/chart.htm?l=...

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#48

Post by adev_ »

throwawayno03 wrote: post #35
willvarfar wrote: post #11

This blame game is all about supporting current political narratives about nuclear power etc. It's not really about the energy crisis. Sweden's energy mess is all about 'free markets'. Back in the old days the state-run energy companies in Sweden produced an overabundance of electricity, mostly from hydro, making Sweden one of the cheapest electricity countries in the world. It was really common to replace wood burne…

It's the same situation as Norway. We also have a lot of hydro electricity, but the politicians decided to join the European energy market, and the prices have gone through the roof. I don't understand why the Germans closed down nuclear power plants without also building a viable alternative. There are lots of people in Sweden and Norway that don't have a lot of money, and have to skip showers and live in the cold b…

> I don't understand why the Germans closed down nuclear power plants without also building a viable alternative. There are lots of people in Sweden and Norway that don't have a lot of money, and have to skip showers and live in the cold because they can't afford to spend more on electricity.

That is what you get when strategical choices are done by ideology and not based on scientific facts.

Germany has a lot tchernobyl-traumatized boomers still associating anything tagged "nuclear" to the doom days from the cold war. These are a significant part of the electorate, specially among the Grunens.

The decision of phasing out nuclear was not rational nor strategical, it was a political choice to please a minority of voters.

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#49

Post by jillesvangurp »

queuep wrote: post #23
jillesvangurp wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually this is a good thing. There's demand for energy so prices go up. This in turn makes investments in energy generation in Sweden more lucrative since they apparently have a lot of energy revenue coming in from abroad to finance more such projects. There are a lot of renewable energy projects in and around Sweden and the wider region. And of course they are actually manufacturing and exporting a lot of wind tur…

> There is no energy shortage in Sweden. They can export as little or as much power as they want. This statement definitely needs a source. The EU have laws that require 70% of the produces electricity to be on the market. Source, in Swedish: https://www.svk.se/om-kraftsystemet/om-elmarknaden/export-oc...

It's a net energy exporter; as many sources will confirm.

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#50

Post by guerrilla »

locallost wrote: post #47

In 2022 Germany's nuclear plants produced 32.8 TWh of electricity, which was 6.4% of the load in that country [1]. Compared to 2022, the spot market prices in Germany are lower in both 2023 (significantly) and 2024. [2] Seems a bit odd that the nuclear exit in Germany did not create large issues, but is wrecking havoc on Sweden. [1] https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE... [2] https://energy-ch…

> Seems a bit odd that the nuclear exit in Germany did not create large issues, but is wrecking havoc on Sweden.

It didn't have any effect until the nets and markets were connected. They couldn't outbid us before that.

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