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Inside the university AI cheating crisis

theguardian.com

41–50 of 113 posts

Re: Inside the university AI cheating crisis

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one student who got caught for plagiarism when I was a TA was busted by turnitin. Maybe the tool isn't perfect but it caught this student who had painstakingly replaced every single word in a copied paper with a synonym. I'm talking "perhaps the utility is not flawless, but the use of this utility allowed for the apprehension of a pupil who..." etc. I was surprised at the level of effort

I'm always shocked at how much students will put in effort simply not to do an assignment given. I guess this is just part of what you will get when you attach cultural and economic worth to a set of hoops to jump through [even if the intent is to have institutions of knowledge, sadly I think many students just see it as a way to get economic stability].

Unrelated to the cheating part, if you don't see American colleges primarily as a path to economic stability, I think you are probably either rich that it doesn't matter or haven't seen the bottom 25% outcomes of college graduates who didn't treat it as a financial opportunity/investment and are struggling.

Re: Inside the university AI cheating crisis

#43

I am enormously glad I went to college before these tools existed. I don't know how I would handle myself with access to them.

I did undergrad before chatGPT and now I’m back in school for an MBA at a school where the school pays for all students to have access to GPT4o. Maybe because we’re all older the tools are less of a problem, but I would say they have been a net positive. GPT3 was ass and students could easily tell when a classmate used it for their group contributions. Profs seems to be about 6-12 months behind the curve in terms of the tech. All profs are aware and thinking deeply about how AI is changing how they teach.

Group papers are usually made into an outline at first and then we divvy up the responsibilities. If you use AI, most kids only care if your work sucks. AI consistently scores like an 80-85% (profs sometimes submit and blindly grade the responses), but almost always misses the core teaching points of classwork.

In my program, grades don’t matter (so employers can’t stack rank us). People who make extensive use of AI are really only cheating themselves. If you’re a big AI user, other kids generally know and try to avoid forming groups with you if they know in advance. You learn better when learning alongside others and if all someone does is dump AI slop in the google doc, you’re wasting my time in addition to yours.

I use AI to flesh out points, especially on assignments I don’t care about. It can help for idea generation and “connecting the dots” between ideas, but I always edit the output because the AI makes stylistic choices I don’t like. It’s definitely an accelerator for me when writing papers. I stand behind all the papers I’ve submitted, though some have sucked (regardless of AI usage or not).

In undergrad, when my priorities were less about learning and more towards dating/partying, I definitely would have abused this tool. At the end of the day, using the tool mainly cheats your own learning. I hope they transition to talking about using LLMs like one uses gambling - a little is fine here and there but if it’s all you do that’s a problem.

I’m not sure what to do about elementary age kids, because the AI easily writes “better” essays. At least in college I could do better than an AI if I applied myself. But in sixth grade? Good luck me. Cats out of the bag now and we should be really empathetic to the younger generations. Imagine getting slammed with TikTok->Pandemic->ChatGPT in the span of like 6-7 formative years. They are growing up differently and I certainly have no clue what we need to do to help them be successful.

Re: Inside the university AI cheating crisis

#45
post #4

TurnitIn's cheating detection tools have always been garbage - and I say that as an ex-academic who was 'forced' to use those tools extensively (the PDFs submitted by students are only visible in the Turnitin portal with the 'flags' to the right). Even before the 'AI detection' tool (IMHO snake-oil) the features around copy-pasting/plagiarism were so bad I always ignored them. The tool would flag things like commonly…

As a current academic who uses Turnitin regularly, I find it works fairly well. There are a lot of false positives, but it also regularly identifies actual plagiarism for me.

Re: Inside the university AI cheating crisis

#46
post #4

TurnitIn's cheating detection tools have always been garbage - and I say that as an ex-academic who was 'forced' to use those tools extensively (the PDFs submitted by students are only visible in the Turnitin portal with the 'flags' to the right). Even before the 'AI detection' tool (IMHO snake-oil) the features around copy-pasting/plagiarism were so bad I always ignored them. The tool would flag things like commonly…

The one student who got caught for plagiarism when I was a TA was busted by turnitin. Maybe the tool isn't perfect but it caught this student who had painstakingly replaced every single word in a copied paper with a synonym. I'm talking "perhaps the utility is not flawless, but the use of this utility allowed for the apprehension of a pupil who..." etc. I was surprised at the level of effort

So it either only caught a single cheater among some unknown number, or only a single student cheated? Neither case seems to justify the expense and hassle of subjecting everybody to this process, not to mention everything else wrong with TurnItIn.

Re: Inside the university AI cheating crisis

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we teach kids how to do basic arithmetic by hand? After all, calculators are basically ubiquitous at this point. Why waste the time teaching a skill that's not necessary as an adult? The reason is because doing arithmetic by hand teaches kids how math actually works, while using a calculator just teaches them how to find the answer. This base-level understanding is crucial for understanding more advanced math.…

> Why do we teach kids how to do basic arithmetic by hand? I think kids waste way too much time doing hard arithmetic by hand. As a particularly egregious example, I visited a Montessori primary school where they demonstrated what is essentially a complex single player board game, for calculating square roots by hand. It's a process whereby a 5th grader would take ~10 minutes to calculate the root of a 3 digit number…

Obviously there's a balance to be struck. There are certainly schools and teachers that teach arithmetic poorly, and there's a practical limit to the amount of hours spent doing equations before it becomes tedious busywork.

But I still think it's important that kids are taught how to do arithmetic by hand. And part of that will involve repetition, both to help reinforce and practice skills, and so educators can more accurately gauge a student's ability. You can't just bypass the need to sit down and do the work, even if the exact amount of work necessary is debatable.

Re: Inside the university AI cheating crisis

#48
post #26

My wife is an English prof at a local University. She is tired of being put in the position of being an AI cop. She is tired of 10% students whose work was flagged wasting 50% of her office hours trying to convince her that their work is real. For her literature classes - where the class grade is composed of a participation grade and a written work grade - she is strongly considering getting rid of all written homewo…

[deleted]

Re: Inside the university AI cheating crisis

#50

This is an easy to solve problem: oral exams / interview exams.

That's how grad degrees are done. But there's simply not enough time to do this at an undergrad level with potentially hundreds of students.

Not really in my experience. That's how final PhD examinations are typically done. Outside of that, it's pretty rare. That said, PhD students are also regularly interacting with faculty members and discussing their work so it would be difficult to get by without actually knowing things.
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