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Phi-4: Microsoft's Newest Small Language Model Specializing in Complex Reasoning

techcommunity.microsoft.com

41–50 of 148 posts

Re: Phi-4: Microsoft's Newest Small Language Model Specializing in Complex Reasoning

#41

Where have I been? What is a “small” language model? Wikipedia just talks about LLMs. Is this a sort of spectrum? Are there medium language models? Or is it a more nuanced classifier?

There are all sizes of models from a few GB to hundreds of GB. Small presumably means small enough to run on end-user hardware.

Re: Phi-4: Microsoft's Newest Small Language Model Specializing in Complex Reasoning

#42
post #3

Looks like it punches way above its weight(s). How far are we from running a GPT-3/GPT-4 level LLM on regular consumer hardware, like a MacBook Pro?

We’re already past that point! MacBooks can easily run models exceeding GPT-3.5, such as Llama 3.1 8B, Qwen 2.5 8B, or Gemma 2 9B. These models run at very comfortable speeds on Apple Silicon. And they are distinctly more capable and less prone to hallucination than GPT-3.5 was. Llama 3.3 70B and Qwen 2.5 72B are certainly comparable to GPT-4, and they will run on MacBook Pros with at least 64GB of RAM. However, I ha…

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Re: Phi-4: Microsoft's Newest Small Language Model Specializing in Complex Reasoning

#43
post #38

Where have I been? What is a “small” language model? Wikipedia just talks about LLMs. Is this a sort of spectrum? Are there medium language models? Or is it a more nuanced classifier?

7B vs 70B parameters... I think. The small ones fit in the memory of consumer grade cards. That's what I more or less know (waiting for my new computer to arrive this week)

How many parameters did ChatGPT have in Dec 2022 when it first broke into mainstream news?

Re: Phi-4: Microsoft's Newest Small Language Model Specializing in Complex Reasoning

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SVG created for the first prompt is valid but is a garbage image.

In general I've had poor results with LLMs generating pictures using text instructions (in my case I've tried to get them to generate pictures using plots in KQL). They work but the pictures are very very basic. I'd be interested for any LLM emitting any kind of text-to-picture instructions to get results that are beyond a kindergartner-cardboard-cutout levels of art.

I do with Claude: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42351796#42355665

Re: Phi-4: Microsoft's Newest Small Language Model Specializing in Complex Reasoning

#45
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7B vs 70B parameters... I think. The small ones fit in the memory of consumer grade cards. That's what I more or less know (waiting for my new computer to arrive this week)

How many parameters did ChatGPT have in Dec 2022 when it first broke into mainstream news?

I don't think that's ever been shared, but it's predecessor GPT-3 Da Vinci was 175B.

One of the most exciting trends of the past year has been models getting dramatically smaller while maintaining similar levels of capability.

Re: Phi-4: Microsoft's Newest Small Language Model Specializing in Complex Reasoning

#46
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7B vs 70B parameters... I think. The small ones fit in the memory of consumer grade cards. That's what I more or less know (waiting for my new computer to arrive this week)

How many parameters did ChatGPT have in Dec 2022 when it first broke into mainstream news?

GPT-3 had 175B, and the original ChatGPT was probably just a GPT-3 finetune (although they called it gpt-3.5, so it could have been different). However, it was severely undertrained. Llama-3.1-8B is better in most ways than the original ChatGPT; a well-trained ~70B usually feels GPT-4-level. The latest Llama release, llama-3.3-70b, goes toe-to-toe even with much larger models (albeit is bad at coding, like all Llama models so far; it's not inherent to the size, since Qwen is good, so I'm hoping the Llama 4 series is trained on more coding tokens).

Re: Phi-4: Microsoft's Newest Small Language Model Specializing in Complex Reasoning

#47
post #39
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I use the SVG pelican riding a bicycle thing as a benchmark: it's a deliberately absurd and extremely difficult task.

Appreciate your rapid analysis of new models, Simon. Have any models you've tested performed well on the pelican SVG task?

gemini-exp-1206 is my new favorite: https://simonwillison.net/2024/Dec/6/gemini-exp-1206/

Claude 3.5 Sonnet is in second place: https://github.com/simonw/pelican-bicycle?tab=readme-ov-file...

Re: Phi-4: Microsoft's Newest Small Language Model Specializing in Complex Reasoning

#48
post #22
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare performance on various Macs here as it gets updated: https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/discussions/4167 OMM, Llama 3.3 70B runs at ~7 text generation tokens per second on Macbook Pro Max 128GB, while generating GPT-4 feeling text with more in depth responses and fewer bullets. Llama 3.3 70B also doesn't fight the system prompt, it leans in. Consider e.g. LM Studio (0.3.5 or newer) for a Metal (MLX) cente…

What if you have a Macbook Air with 16GB (the bechmarks dont seem to show memory).

I have a M2 Air with 24GB, and have successfully run some 12B models such as mistral-nemo. Had other stuff going as well, but it's best to give it as much of the machine as possible.

Re: Phi-4: Microsoft's Newest Small Language Model Specializing in Complex Reasoning

#49

Where have I been? What is a “small” language model? Wikipedia just talks about LLMs. Is this a sort of spectrum? Are there medium language models? Or is it a more nuanced classifier?

I think it came from this paper, TinyStories (https://arxiv.org/abs/2305.07759). iirc this was also the inspiration for the Phi family of models. The essential point (of the TinyStories paper), "if we train a model on text meant for 3-4 year olds, since that's much simpler shouldn't we need fewer parameters?" Which is correct. In the original they have a model that's 32 Million parameters and they compare it GPT-2 (1.5 Billion parameters) and the 32M model does much better. Microsoft has been interesed in this because "lower models == less resource usage" which means they can run on consumer devices. You can easily run TinyStories from your phone, which is presumably what Microsoft wants to do too.

Re: Phi-4: Microsoft's Newest Small Language Model Specializing in Complex Reasoning

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re already past that point! MacBooks can easily run models exceeding GPT-3.5, such as Llama 3.1 8B, Qwen 2.5 8B, or Gemma 2 9B. These models run at very comfortable speeds on Apple Silicon. And they are distinctly more capable and less prone to hallucination than GPT-3.5 was. Llama 3.3 70B and Qwen 2.5 72B are certainly comparable to GPT-4, and they will run on MacBook Pros with at least 64GB of RAM. However, I ha…

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> Is a $8000 MBP regular consumer hardware?

May want to double-check your specs. 16" w/128GB & 2TB is $5,400.

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