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Jury finds Cognizant discriminated against US workers

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Re: Jury finds Cognizant discriminated against US workers

#41
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

trump winning the presidency twice should prove this is 1000% not true

"Win" the argument as in "stop the conversation because when someone drops that nuke they have made it clear that there's no rebuttal that will be accepted". Luckily, once you're in the voting booth, you don't need to argue with someone to vote: all you need to do is make your marks and hand in the paper.

To be clear, there are racists, and there are valid accusations of racism. I grew up and lived in the American Southeast for a long time. I'm WELL aware of the ongoing existence of and trouble with racists.

While my personal experience is affected by being in the SF Bay Area for the past couple of decades, it is my experience that over those decades the overwhelming majority of accusations of racism in ordinary conversation are not invoked because of racism, but are used as a shorthand for "Fuck you, I'm done with this conversation and done with YOU.".

Re: Jury finds Cognizant discriminated against US workers

#42

Cognizant, Tata, Infosys, the list goes on, the all have been gaming the system for 30 years now to funnel people to the US like Mexican Coyoties. They're not in the game to hire US people, it's all about funneling as many Southeast Asians as possible here. Talking to many friends over years having been through it to come here, I view it a bit like old (like 18th century old) indentured servitude of Europeans trying…

It's not limited to the US. Here in Latvia, which is one of the poorest EU country, we have seen an influx of Indian citizens willing to emigrate. Many will work for little more than 1 or 2€ per hour, and come here by bribing emigration officiers or paying fees to local shady schools that act as visa mills.

I saw the same thing in Poland as well.

Re: Jury finds Cognizant discriminated against US workers

#43
post #25

Cognizant, Tata, Infosys, the list goes on, the all have been gaming the system for 30 years now to funnel people to the US like Mexican Coyoties. They're not in the game to hire US people, it's all about funneling as many Southeast Asians as possible here. Talking to many friends over years having been through it to come here, I view it a bit like old (like 18th century old) indentured servitude of Europeans trying…

> it was a good deal for everyone involved It wasn’t, though. There were no immigration limits and those immigrants could come to the Americas freely. They just couldn’t afford the trip due to the extreme poverty in England. In the 1740s one way trip to America cost around £8. An entirely unskilled laborer could hope to make at least £10-15 per year in England and about double that in Massachusetts. The standard cont…

You left of the most important part of the quote: wink wink. Your entire comment is just based on the opposite meaning of the gp.

Re: Jury finds Cognizant discriminated against US workers

#44

Cognizant, Tata, Infosys, the list goes on, the all have been gaming the system for 30 years now to funnel people to the US like Mexican Coyoties. They're not in the game to hire US people, it's all about funneling as many Southeast Asians as possible here. Talking to many friends over years having been through it to come here, I view it a bit like old (like 18th century old) indentured servitude of Europeans trying…

> drop an anchor kid to force naturalization This doesn’t work the way many assume. Yes, it’s true, the kid ends up a citizen by birth. But the kid can’t sponsor the parent for permanent residence until the kid is 21 years old, there are financial requirements the kid has to meet as a sponsor, processing the application still takes at least at least a year or two after that, citizenship takes additional years (usuall…

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Re: Jury finds Cognizant discriminated against US workers

#45
post #36

I don't think "discriminating" is a good term here. If the case was "you do the same amount of work for the same amount of money as our foreign workers, but we don't like the color of your skin" it is one thing. But if the case is "we don't like you because you do less work than our foreign workers and ask more money for it and on top of that you don't want to move into the office", it is a completely different thing…

the WITCH playbook is to parade a competent team in front of the executive signing the deal then replace them with untrained people seduced into their sweatshops with promises of riches (but ending up in sweatshop). Local teams hired or acquired are also part of the dog&pony show, H-1B and similar visa deals are used to keep some of the "middle" and up workers on a leash.

To those confused, the acronym is like FAANG; companies involved.

The playbook is so prevalent I'd argue it extends to anything publicly traded.

Re: Jury finds Cognizant discriminated against US workers

#46
Suggestion:

Let the programs continue but consider assessing a hefty fee to those requesting such individuals that replaces all forgone salary adjusted to current day dollars for all citizens impacted - from 2003 onwards up to current day (and beyond) no strings or taxes attached.

If we really want the people, the firms will have no problem paying for the damage, much like how externality costs are assessed.

Re: Jury finds Cognizant discriminated against US workers

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H1Bs from India today face waitlists going over 132 years for a green card. They have zero scope of getting a citizenship in USA in the first place.

And yet, I've worked with H1-Bs who get their green card who are much, much younger than 132 years. Something doesn't add up here. Are you perhaps relying on a number that has been inflated by relatively-recent staffing shortages?

132 years is the waitlist now. And it will only increase, Indians will very likely be looking at a 200-year waitlist by the end of this decade.

The successful green card holders you mention are those who came in early (in the 2000s and 2010s) and got through before the situation became so crazy. Or, in some cases, O1-holders.

Re: Jury finds Cognizant discriminated against US workers

#48
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the WITCH playbook is to parade a competent team in front of the executive signing the deal then replace them with untrained people seduced into their sweatshops with promises of riches (but ending up in sweatshop). Local teams hired or acquired are also part of the dog&pony show, H-1B and similar visa deals are used to keep some of the "middle" and up workers on a leash.

To those confused, the acronym is like FAANG; companies involved. The playbook is so prevalent I'd argue it extends to anything publicly traded.

There's general publicly traded shittery, and then there's WITCH (for reference, WiPro, Infosys, Tata, Cognizant, HCL).

I've seen shitty expense cutting in many publicly traded companies, but there's like this chasm between the norm and industrial grade bullshit.

Usually outside of WITCH or directly WITCH-influenced places (because let's be honest, nobody works in isolation, so the same managerial styles percolate as people move through companies), you don't see being sent people that leave you with feeling that the only qualification they had was that they should speak english according to census data. Even the one polish company that is infamous for trying to repeat similar "success" at least churns and burns mostly CS students (its late founder had a saying that you can replace any specialist with bounded count of undergrads, and that the number is usually 1).

And I don't say it to be mean about the people - they might be highly skilled in other areas, it's that the company has policy of not training them nor supporting them while they churn through them at lowest possible cost, below what I'd call the thermocline of disbelief and shame - disbelief that other company sent someone so unprepared, and shame of the managers who run operations like that.

It's one thing for your typical consulting public company to promise the stars then non deliver, hell I have heard first hand from Accenture exec about problems at intersection of sales, being able to tell customer no, and what is actually deliverable.

But there's a definite difference in degree when the "team" that you supposedly paid for is swapped the instant the ink is dry, only when contract is at risk of dissolution for bad performane slipping in someone who does not require being sent a document that has every mouse click one after another documented in screenshots.

Re: Jury finds Cognizant discriminated against US workers

#49
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To those confused, the acronym is like FAANG; companies involved. The playbook is so prevalent I'd argue it extends to anything publicly traded.

There's general publicly traded shittery, and then there's WITCH (for reference, WiPro, Infosys, Tata, Cognizant, HCL). I've seen shitty expense cutting in many publicly traded companies, but there's like this chasm between the norm and industrial grade bullshit. Usually outside of WITCH or directly WITCH-influenced places (because let's be honest, nobody works in isolation, so the same managerial styles percolate as…

I think it's a bit silly to act as if the divides are so clear, as if industries don't become a soup-of-shit. Everyone learns these things from somewhere, trade shows have many attendees, etc. Players larger than any of these make several identical plays at once. They specialize while others build empires.

All of my recent experience has been SRE work - in these businesses, it's just as you describe. Bait/switch opportunities abound with operations work. Even non-tech companies require this kind of 'help'

It's industrialized, become a product itself. Insidious. Going to a vendor to help you do something you already have the staff for, yet putting gloves on everyone involved. It's endlessly frustrating!

+100, none of this is with malice to the individuals. Just... systems thinking, is all. Terrible feedback loops all around :/

There is a meme that the people you want in DCOPs are the exact types you lament RE: qualifications. Their wet dream is a warm body. Language isn't a requirement; we can translate (or even mechanically rehearse) the runbooks.

Re: Jury finds Cognizant discriminated against US workers

#50

I don't think "discriminating" is a good term here. If the case was "you do the same amount of work for the same amount of money as our foreign workers, but we don't like the color of your skin" it is one thing. But if the case is "we don't like you because you do less work than our foreign workers and ask more money for it and on top of that you don't want to move into the office", it is a completely different thing…

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