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US LLCs must file new report with Treasury FinCEN or risk prison

fincen.gov

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Re: US LLCs must file new report with Treasury FinCEN or risk prison

#41

Post by encoderer »

immibis wrote: post #24
encoderer wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it was not hard. But why are we adding draconian punishments for new business paperwork? Why are you ok with that part? Why shouldn’t this just be a fine? We really should not be ok with this if you wouldn’t personally be ok with a friend going to jail who failed to file. I, for one, am definitely not.

A fine is just a cost of doing business, and the kinds of entities that this targets would happily just pay the fine to continue being anonymous.

This along with AML/KYC are the new war on drugs. Probably worse to be honest: a compliance regime that costs lawful businesses billions of dollars to navigate, always getting larger, always getting more draconian.

It’s crazy we accept this. Where is the proof any of this is working at all?

Re: US LLCs must file new report with Treasury FinCEN or risk prison

#42

Post by insane_dreamer »

atonse wrote: post #38
notenoughhorses wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many accountants are worried about the risk of filing for their clients and won’t do it at all. Determination of ownership is not as straightforward as one might assume in many cases.

My accountant just told me yesterday that AICP is telling their accountants to just have their clients do it themselves cuz of liability reasons in ownership not being as straightforward in many situations, like you said.

Or it may be straightforward (the people in control know they're in control) but not reflected in the books as it's not an accounting issue, and therefore the accountant doesn't really know (and doesn't want to assume wrong).

Re: US LLCs must file new report with Treasury FinCEN or risk prison

#43

Post by vetrom »

gamblor956 wrote: post #33

This was suspended by a federal judge. It's likely to end up becoming law eventually. The requirements of this rule are not burdensome and they are directly related to the laws that FinCEN was created to enforce. Also, we have information exchange treaties with multiple countries that require us to collect some of this information. We haven't been upholding our end of those treaties and this law was intended to bring…

While complying with our treaties as a nation is good and proper, those treaties remain subordinate to the Constitution. To the best of my knowledge, there is no verbiage in there that permits Congress to authorize a law for the mass collection of information, and the centralization thereof that is not directly pursuant to any of its enumerated powers.

This doesn't even touch the government, as a whole's, less than stellar record as it comes to protecting PII from improper disclosure. CTA, as written and implemented, creates a wide array of real and potential harms. It's bad law, as it stands.

Re: US LLCs must file new report with Treasury FinCEN or risk prison

#44

Post by gamblor956 »

vetrom wrote: post #43
gamblor956 wrote: post #33

This was suspended by a federal judge. It's likely to end up becoming law eventually. The requirements of this rule are not burdensome and they are directly related to the laws that FinCEN was created to enforce. Also, we have information exchange treaties with multiple countries that require us to collect some of this information. We haven't been upholding our end of those treaties and this law was intended to bring…

While complying with our treaties as a nation is good and proper, those treaties remain subordinate to the Constitution. To the best of my knowledge, there is no verbiage in there that permits Congress to authorize a law for the mass collection of information, and the centralization thereof that is not directly pursuant to any of its enumerated powers. This doesn't even touch the government, as a whole's, less than s…

There's also no law that requires the IRS to give LLCs flow through tax treatment...

The IRS could conform the treatment of LLCs to the way other limited liability entities are treated... as entities subject to taxation in their own right.

Re: US LLCs must file new report with Treasury FinCEN or risk prison

#45

Post by vetrom »

gamblor956 wrote: post #44
vetrom wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While complying with our treaties as a nation is good and proper, those treaties remain subordinate to the Constitution. To the best of my knowledge, there is no verbiage in there that permits Congress to authorize a law for the mass collection of information, and the centralization thereof that is not directly pursuant to any of its enumerated powers. This doesn't even touch the government, as a whole's, less than s…

There's also no law that requires the IRS to give LLCs flow through tax treatment... The IRS could conform the treatment of LLCs to the way other limited liability entities are treated... as entities subject to taxation in their own right.

Maybe they could. I am uncertain whether they would need legislation to do so.

IMO that would arguably be the more correct option, but it would also remove the sort of information pool that can enable leakage or fishing expeditions the current law seems aimed to generate.

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