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Engineering Sleep

minjunes.ai

41–50 of 205 posts

Re: Engineering Sleep

#41

I’ll admit I didn’t read TFA. Some combination of the title and the submission domain triggered my tick even more than usual around the use of “AI”. It’s extremely unlikely that I’ll regard any artifact as artificially intelligent if the broader context fails a pretty low bar for intelligence of any kind.

Please tell me Foubners Fund is a gigaparsec from this before I become the Unabomber.

Re: Engineering Sleep

#42

Why is it not a survival advantage? Probably because we didn't work 18 hour days, the extra wakeness would just be used for rest. Night shifts that anyone can do are still needed if you need tribal watchers, and normal 8hr sleeping people can wake upnand fight when needed. In terms of the gene, I am suprised how rare it is (90 families?) given I have met someone who needs only 4hr sleep. Another point is less sleep d…

> Why is it not a survival advantage?

Because you're more likely to hurt yourself while doing anything in the dark?

Re: Engineering Sleep

#43
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Productivity is irrelevant: when you have young children, any given amount of time where you can be awake and functional is incredibly valuable - particularly if it works outside the hours your children sleep. Like I'll settle for "tired but no accruing sleep debt".

Are we assuming then that you're not treating the children? Because otherwise they just sleep less as well and now you're back to square one. I suppose you can full dystopia it, go the other way, make them need 12-16 hours a sleep a day whilst you only need 4 ;)

I mean I also don't give my son caffeine (because he's 2) so this seems like a reasonable assumption.

Teenagers stay up too late anyway so I'd say this sort of thing would be a good way to hopefully reduce the effects of sleep deprivation.

Re: Engineering Sleep

#44
> Familial Natural Short Sleep (FNSS), a benign mutation that allows them to sleep 1-2 hours less than the recommended 7-9 hours, without experiencing the negative effects of sleep deprivation.

Sleep deprivation is one concern, but there’s a more subtle impact on cognitive functions (working memory, creativity, deep focus), overall health (particularly the endocrine and immune systems), and long-term health outcomes (such as an increased risk of dementia).

When I was younger, I was fascinated by various optimized sleep schedules. However, I noticed a stark contrast: many of my math friends consistently slept 9–10 hours a day. They needed that—not just to function in daily life but to achieve the deep focus required for their work. Living on less sleep might not affect immediate action (and in some cases, it might even seem to enhance focus on doing), but it can impair deeper, more complex thinking.

Some suggest that one of sleep's key roles is to help the brain regenerate. Chronic sleep deprivation, in turn, is linked to a higher risk of dementia. For anecdotal evidence: Churchill and Thatcher, known for boasting about sleeping only 4–5 hours a night, experienced significant cognitive decline later in life.

Re: Engineering Sleep

#45

Hey, discussion of orexin receptor stuff! As someone with clinically-diagnosed insomnia, I've been lucky enough to/unfortunate enough to have to try the orexin receptor antagonist sleep aids for a while. As recent, on-patent drugs, they are very, very expensive ($360/month was the number marked on the receipt slip, not that that means much in the US; I certainly wasn't paying that)... and they work. They really, real…

>(And for the record, I'm off them now due to other stuff clearing up such that I don't need this level of sleep assistance anymore. Not because I can't afford them.) If it was available over the counter for, say, $50/month -- do you think you would be taking it just for the improved sleep quality? Also, what was the specific name of the drug you had such a good experience with?

Afaiu exmadscientist said their sleep quality improved in the context of their condition, but still worse than a healthy person's sleep:

> Sleep quality was not perfect (maybe 80% of "normal"? I don't know)

Re: Engineering Sleep

#46
This article makes me want to get a DNA test. In my family, it’s very common to sleep in the six-hour range. I personally sleep from 10 pm to 4:25 am every day, often waking up around 4:15 am before my watch vibrates to wake me.

If I sleep eight hours, I feel groggy, jet-lagged, and generally have a day where I’m slogging through molasses to get from one task to the next.

My wife has raised concerns about my sleep pattern, so I started using sleep-tracking tools like Fitbit and, more recently, an Apple Watch. She tracks her sleep too, and the big difference we’ve noticed is that I fall asleep within about two minutes, and my “sleep efficiency” using these tools is 98%. If I’m traveling and feel a bit jet-lagged, I can take a 20-minute nap (often without an alarm) and wake up feeling refreshed. She also seems to wake up a lot, most nights I "sleep like a log" and I only wakeup in the morning.

My mother has the same pattern but stays up later and sleeps about six hours into the morning. I used to do this too, but around age 23, I switched to an earlier bedtime and a consistent daily routine. When I became a “morning person,” I found I could code like crazy in the morning before “starting” my day, and this rewarding experience reinforced the habit.

I’ve tested this pattern in many ways, including not using an alarm (I still wake up around the same time for weeks at a time) and using a “light clock” I built with a Raspberry Pi to slowly brighten the room. Again, I wake up after roughly 6 hours and 20 minutes. Now, I use my Apple Watch to vibrate as a gentle reminder to start the day. On weekends, I keep the same schedule and use the extra time to read or hack away at side projects, often coding until the late afternoon when my wife protests enough that I need to stop and hang out or do my honey-do's.

About 10 years ago, during my annual checkup, my wife asked my doctor about this sleep pattern. The doctor asked me several questions, seemingly looking for signs of sleep deficit or dysfunction. In the end, he said I could do a sleep study but concluded, “If it works, don’t break it.”

As for productivity, I’ve found I can code effectively from 4:30 am to 8:30 am, then shower and work from 9 am to 6 pm without much trouble. I also practice intermittent fasting, typically eating only at 6 pm, with a protein shake around noon. This habit happened by accident—I realized breakfast slowed me down, and eating lots of carbs impaired my cognitive function and ability to code or handle complex tasks in the morning.

Before you ask, I generally don’t use caffeine or other stimulants. Occasionally, I’ll have one cup of coffee around 9 am as a social habit, but I recently stopped that again and actually feel better. I’ll most likely drop it again for a while until it sneaks back in again.

Re: Engineering Sleep

#47
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we assuming then that you're not treating the children? Because otherwise they just sleep less as well and now you're back to square one. I suppose you can full dystopia it, go the other way, make them need 12-16 hours a sleep a day whilst you only need 4 ;)

I mean I also don't give my son caffeine (because he's 2) so this seems like a reasonable assumption. Teenagers stay up too late anyway so I'd say this sort of thing would be a good way to hopefully reduce the effects of sleep deprivation.

Teenagers have to get up too early. Teenagers experience a shift in their circadian rhythm and also require more sleep than before puberty. School schedules do not account for this shift.

Re: Engineering Sleep

#48

Why is it not a survival advantage? Probably because we didn't work 18 hour days, the extra wakeness would just be used for rest. Night shifts that anyone can do are still needed if you need tribal watchers, and normal 8hr sleeping people can wake upnand fight when needed. In terms of the gene, I am suprised how rare it is (90 families?) given I have met someone who needs only 4hr sleep. Another point is less sleep d…

Only 90 medically identified families. The condition is probably far more likely than just those medically identified. And people typically do not mention abnormalities that positively affect them to their doctors.

Re: Engineering Sleep

#49

My question is, if sleeping less (with FNSS) offers so much advantage, why haven't we all evolved to sleep less with FNSS? If a mutation offers a distinct advantage, natural selection will force us to adopt it sooner or later.

Humans already sleep far less than other mammals, so that seems to be the case. It also might be evidence that attempting to get by with less has costs. Sleep debt has a range of troubling symptoms including psychosis, so risks involved in experimentation are significant.
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