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Javier Milei: "My contempt for the state is infinite"

economist.com

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Re: Javier Milei: "My contempt for the state is infinite"

#41

Post by wslh »

drexlspivey wrote: post #33
avidphantasm wrote: post #21

There wouldn’t be free markets without the state. So he either doesn’t actually want free markets and wants to run a mafia state like Putin, or he is a complete idiot.

Why would a state be needed for a free market? The old American west is a recent example of no formal state with a free market.

For example, the concentration of power can manifest in monopolies or oligopolies that dominate markets, reducing competition and harming consumers.

Another example from Argentina is the situation in Ushuaia, where so-called "electronic companies" benefit from significant tax exemptions. These companies basically assemble Samsung devices rather than engaging in full-scale production, yet they present these products as if they were manufactured in Argentina. This highlights how government policies can sometimes distort markets instead of fostering genuine competition or innovation.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ushuaia

Re: Javier Milei: "My contempt for the state is infinite"

#42

Post by Jordan-117 »

drexlspivey wrote: post #33
avidphantasm wrote: post #21

There wouldn’t be free markets without the state. So he either doesn’t actually want free markets and wants to run a mafia state like Putin, or he is a complete idiot.

Why would a state be needed for a free market? The old American west is a recent example of no formal state with a free market.

A healthy state funds public infrastructure the market relies on, sets regulations that curb negative externalities, and discourages monopolistic and anti-competitive practices. You can have a free market without a state, but it will be inefficient, dangerous, and eventually dominated by a handful of oligarchs.

Re: Javier Milei: "My contempt for the state is infinite"

#43

Post by marcosdumay »

wslh wrote: post #7

Beyond the traditional dichotomy of right and left, it's always insightful to contrast real politics and media narratives with reality. Javier Milei is introducing several changes in Argentina, but it will take time to assess their effectiveness. As of now, some key issues remain: - The USD/ARS exchange rate is still tightly controlled by the state, which is neither libertarian nor liberal in practice. - There are no…

> There are no significant incentives for exports. Only imports.

I have an urge to punch some politician in the face every time somebody creates one of those systems that punish one and incentives the other.

They can't move independently.

Re: Javier Milei: "My contempt for the state is infinite"

#44

Post by orwin »

rayiner wrote: post #14
Muromec wrote: post #10

I'm as anarhist as any other wanna be erlang developer, but it's odd to see Trump mentioned in the context of taming Leviathan, when he promises to use military to deport millions of people out of the country under martial law kind of regime. I guess one persons libertarian hero is another persons statist opressor. I would not care less if not the military to use for taming the Leviathan wasn't biggest in the world a…

[flagged]

> virtually all Africans [...] have a fundamentally paternalistic view of the state

Yeah, no, clearly not.

Go in Western Sahara, visit touaregs, ask them about states and what they think of them. Go in eastern Africa, talk to them about libertarianism (Kenya, Zambia, Mozambique). In Ethiopia, you'll probably find the highest concentration of libertarians in the world, they call themselves "Horn Anarchists" i think. Maybe what you're saying is true for colonized Africa, or at least for the part of africa that was left in power once Europeans left, but you just have to look at what is happening in south Congo to understand that some states in Africa are so weak they might as well dont exist. And most state have communes that escape them, due to tribal identity (you've heard of native Mexican tribes that oppose and resist Cartels since the 80s? think how it would go for weaker organization like some African states to go after them. Yeah, not well.). Africa is huge man, i'm pretty sure i have a different view of it than you since the only African i know are from anarchist/libertarian orgs, and that's a _very_ limiting lens.

Re: Javier Milei: "My contempt for the state is infinite"

#45

Post by Xunjin »

Muromec wrote: post #10

I'm as anarhist as any other wanna be erlang developer, but it's odd to see Trump mentioned in the context of taming Leviathan, when he promises to use military to deport millions of people out of the country under martial law kind of regime. I guess one persons libertarian hero is another persons statist opressor. I would not care less if not the military to use for taming the Leviathan wasn't biggest in the world a…

What the F did I just read?!

Re: Javier Milei: "My contempt for the state is infinite"

#46

Post by pavlov »

aylmao wrote: post #25
drexlspivey wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably current singapore or 80s Hong Kong

The state holds a lot of power in Singapore, it's very authoritarian. Sounds quite at odds to Milei and his libertarian idology.

The anti-state people often like the idea of an authoritarian leader figure who will fix things by their genius and power of will. Some really do want monarchy (see Curtis Yarvin), but others believe that the dissolution of state power needs to go through an authoritarian phase to happen at all.

It’s not so different from the old-school communists who claimed that a “dictatorship of the proletariat” is a necessary step towards the true freedom of mankind under proper Communism. Conveniently they were the ones in charge of the “temporary” dictatorship in this picture.

Libertarianism and communism are ideological siblings. Both fail time and time again, but to the believers it’s always someone else’s fault and the proper implementation of the ideology simply hasn’t been tried yet.

Re: Javier Milei: "My contempt for the state is infinite"

#47

Post by [deleted] »

drexlspivey wrote: post #33
avidphantasm wrote: post #21

There wouldn’t be free markets without the state. So he either doesn’t actually want free markets and wants to run a mafia state like Putin, or he is a complete idiot.

Why would a state be needed for a free market? The old American west is a recent example of no formal state with a free market.

[deleted]

Re: Javier Milei: "My contempt for the state is infinite"

#48

Post by [deleted] »

orwin wrote: post #44
rayiner wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> virtually all Africans [...] have a fundamentally paternalistic view of the state Yeah, no, clearly not. Go in Western Sahara, visit touaregs, ask them about states and what they think of them. Go in eastern Africa, talk to them about libertarianism (Kenya, Zambia, Mozambique). In Ethiopia, you'll probably find the highest concentration of libertarians in the world, they call themselves "Horn Anarchists" i think. M…

[deleted]

Re: Javier Milei: "My contempt for the state is infinite"

#49

Post by theoa »

drexlspivey wrote: post #20
ks2048 wrote: post #15

I wonder if Milei could choose a (country + year) as the ideal model (or closest to it) for how a state should be run, what would he choose?

Probably current singapore or 80s Hong Kong

I lived in Hong Kong from 1981 to 1991.

* Overflowing with optimism and "can do" * Equal protection under the law no matter the origin * Max tax 15% for all * Education and health benefits for all (accepting always flaws somewhere) * Anti-corruption was effective (ICAC) * Straightforward process to become a voting legal immigrant for non-Chinese * Many people speaking English, various Chinese dialects, Tagalog and more * Springboard to helping adjacent countries modernize * Unparalleled Eastern and Western food and housing and sociability

I moved to San Francisco only because I was a techie and had a need to change the world. If there had been the Internet, I might still be there...

Re: Javier Milei: "My contempt for the state is infinite"

#50

Post by ks2048 »

drexlspivey wrote: post #33
avidphantasm wrote: post #21

There wouldn’t be free markets without the state. So he either doesn’t actually want free markets and wants to run a mafia state like Putin, or he is a complete idiot.

Why would a state be needed for a free market? The old American west is a recent example of no formal state with a free market.

Most people today use term “free market” to include legal and police/military to keep the market free from abuses.

A lot can be debated (various forms of IP rights, etc). But in a “Wild West” situation, is it really a free market if your neighbor can just steal your goods if he has a gun and you don’t?

Going further, you could argue there’s as lot the state can do to facilitate trade (build infrastructure etc)

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