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How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

newsletter.weskao.com

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Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#41

Post by szundi »

lijok wrote: post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

Hard not to be cynical about your response but do you believe most of the superiors out there are on this level that you specify? Would be a joke.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#42

Post by palata »

In my 13 years of experience, I would say it's never worth giving feedback to your manager. Either they are good and it's useless, or they are not and they won't learn from you.

I have come to a simple rule: if the manager is good, there is no problem. If the manager sucks (often that's because they lack experience, but it's all the same), just lie to them in order to preserve yourself. No need to have empathy for them: there is no karma out there. Bad managers usually have no problem climbing the ladder, even if it means making your life miserable. Work for you, not them.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#43

Post by NAHWheatCracker »

lijok wrote: post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

I agree with you that's how it should be, but experience tells me that everyone is insecure and it's hardly correlated with position and job security.

People lower down the chain are insecure because they could legitimately be let go at any time for any reason.

People higher up the chain are insecure because any loss of face is debilitating. Especially having failings pointed out by someone "below" them.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#44

Post by IshKebab »

flymaipie wrote: post #18

Why on earth would someone deserve to be fired based on mere "feedback"? As long as it's not an outright offensive rant, it should be handled sensibly. But even if it is an offensive rant, firing should be a last resort. The amount of toxic subordination that's assumed to be normal is sickening.

It's exaggeration. You might not get fired but it will absolutely affect your raises & bonuses.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#47

Post by 01100011 »

bradlys wrote: post #11
flog wrote: post #4

This was one of the most exhausting aspects of working for a US company, especially as an H1B. Simply: just don't say anything, it wasn't worth it. I'm from cultures where we bluntly call a spade a spade and pride ourselves on disdain for hierarchy. There's far less fear in raising concerns generally to anyone, but it's quite possibly because of the far better employment laws.

It's not just due to an employee being H1B. It's that 80% of your peers are Chinese and Indian H1Bs who bring that culture of deference to authority into the US. I don't even feel like I'm working in the US when I'm working for any tech company these days. If I'm at ads for FB, I may as well be in Beijing. Some others, I may as well be in Mumbai. It would be nice to work with Americans/westerners for once and actuall…

I don't agree with OP. I'm American and have mostly worked for American companies and have rarely had issues with giving honest, often difficult, feedback to superiors.

But

> 80% of your peers are Chinese and Indian H1Bs who bring that culture of deference to authority into the US.

is sadly spot on. Even when the org is very receptive to feedback, one manager in the chain who possesses a cultural belief in absolute authority is enough to break the feedback chain and lead to an organizational abscess of festering dysfunction.

It becomes even worse when your org's management has been taken over by a single cultural group and there is no one to turn to and your only option is to wait for the org to implode and be restructured from above.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#48

Post by hashtag-til »

NAHWheatCracker wrote: post #43
lijok wrote: post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

I agree with you that's how it should be, but experience tells me that everyone is insecure and it's hardly correlated with position and job security. People lower down the chain are insecure because they could legitimately be let go at any time for any reason. People higher up the chain are insecure because any loss of face is debilitating. Especially having failings pointed out by someone "below" them.

From my experience, you build that non-fluff boundaries in the first one or two meetings with a senior leader.

I’d advise against going in the first one throwing punches.

Go with actionable feedback and be honest about what it is and what is not something you can solve. From there, if you genuinely care about whatever you’re complaning, you are more likely to be taken seriously.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#49

Post by slater »

bargainbot3k wrote: post #30
fny wrote: post #27

These are all rhetorical techniques to make your idea their idea. If you ever want to get anything done in painfully structured or faux-flat orgs, this is the way. Why this psyop works: 1. People like to take credit for things. 2. People don't like to be wrong. 3. People get irked when a good idea wasn't their idea. 4. People don't like to feel threatened. 5. Just remove the duck. The examples given are a little cont…

[flagged]

What watermelon?

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#50

Post by 01100011 »

brunooliv wrote: post #26

I found strange to see so much criticism of the post as usually, anything that Wes Kao writes really resonates with me as a senior IC. Usually there’s a great balance of nuance and depth to the advice that makes it easy to digest and pick small bits and pieces to try out on my own context

Nearly 30 years in the business here and I think most of what was said in the article is spot on if you are in an appropriate situation.

Many commenters seem to take absolutist positions on this and think no one should ever allow themselves to be under a bad manager but it happens and then you need to effectively deal with it and these are some good techniques to do so.

The techniques even apply to working with a good manager. You shouldn't just vomit every criticism or critique to your superior. You should engage in introspection and internal dialogue to see if your perspective is correct and if there is more you can do to address the issue before spamming your manager.

If someone is offended by the article they might need to take a step back and ask if their ego has grown beyond its useful size.

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