Live data from Hacker News

I was banned from the hCaptcha accessibility account for not being blind (2023)

michaels.world

41–50 of 277 posts

Re: I was banned from the hCaptcha accessibility account for not being blind (2023)

#41
I hope we can end the CAPTCHA experiment soon. It didn't work.

Phone verification isn't good either, but for as much as I hate phone verification at least it actually raises the cost of spamming somewhat. CAPTCHA does not. Almost all turnkey CAPTCHA services can be solved for pennies.

Solving the problems of SPAM and malicious traffic will be challenging... I am worried it will come down to three possible things:

- Anonymity of users: validating someone's real-life identity sufficiently would make it possible to permanently ban malicious individuals and filter out bots with good effectiveness, but it will destroy anonymity online. In my opinion, literally untenable.

- Closing the platform: approaches like Web Environment Integrity and Private Access Tokens pave the way for how the web platform could be closed down. The vast majority of web users use Google Chrome or Safari on a device with Secure Boot, so the entire boot chain can be attested. The number of users that can viably do this will only increase over time. In this future, the web ceases to meaningfully be open: alternatives to this approach will continue to become less and less useful (e.g. machine learning may not achieve AGI but it's going to kick the ass of every CAPTCHA in sight) so it will become increasingly unlikely you'll be able to get into websites without it.

- Accountability of network operators: Love it or hate it, the Internet benefits a lot from gray-area operators that operate with little oversight or transparency. However, another approach to getting rid of malicious traffic is to push more accountability to network operators, severing non-compliant providers off of the Internet. This would probably also suck, and would incentivize abusing this power.

It's tricky, though. What else can you do? You can try to reduce the incentives to have malicious traffic, but it's hard to do this without decreasing the value that things offer. You can make malicious traffic harder by obfuscation, but it's hard to stop motivated parties.

Either way, it feels like the era of the open web is basically over. The open web may continue to exist, but it will probably be overshadowed by a new and much more closed off web.

Re: I was banned from the hCaptcha accessibility account for not being blind (2023)

#42
post #24
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But surely, it's only going to get worse: it will force the de-anonymization of the internet. You already have to provide a phone number for many services. If websites can't trust that their users are authentic they will probably institute even more intrusive checks. I haven't been optimistic about the future of technology for a while now. :'(

In the future I think we will again go to "notarization"/"attestation" of the operating system / hardware. Essentially, the manufacturer of the device + operating system will generate a unique signature per each device, and web browsers will be able to access it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Environment_Integrity

How does that works for, say, Chromium or Firefox on Linux ?

Re: I was banned from the hCaptcha accessibility account for not being blind (2023)

#43
post #39
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I live in the west, what's a "crosswalk" Did you mean to say > not everyone lives in the USA Other things I don't have a clue about - a fire hydrant, yellow taxis, yellow buses (Obviously I do, because of American cultural imperialism through things like Captchas which mean the world has to understand American cultural touchstones)

Please enter your five-digit ZIP code

[deleted]

Re: I was banned from the hCaptcha accessibility account for not being blind (2023)

#44
post #39
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I live in the west, what's a "crosswalk" Did you mean to say > not everyone lives in the USA Other things I don't have a clue about - a fire hydrant, yellow taxis, yellow buses (Obviously I do, because of American cultural imperialism through things like Captchas which mean the world has to understand American cultural touchstones)

Please enter your five-digit ZIP code

90210

(Cue theme music in mind's ear)

Re: I was banned from the hCaptcha accessibility account for not being blind (2023)

#45

Some captchas are getting pretty discriminatory, not everyone lives in the West and can identify the objects they are asking you to. Another recent one sticks out where they asked me to pick a shape as the same number of conoids on screen. If you ask people on a street what a conoids I bet a significant amount will give you blank looks Also at least now I know some people call those markings crosswalks

But on the internet the answer to „what is a conoid“ is just a web search away.

The bigger problem is when other options of a captcha fit in another cultural context.

Taxi colors are an example for that.

Re: I was banned from the hCaptcha accessibility account for not being blind (2023)

#46
post #21

Why are captchas even a thing still? If folks want to scrape something or build an automation around something, then why not let them do it? They still have to respect the system they're logging in. Not to mention the privacy perk of not exposing your visitors to some captcha service with a dozen or more data subprocessors.

If you have any input forms they will be overrun by bots immediately. At my last job, marketing built a website and didn't tell IT. They had a "contact us" form without any kind of captcha. Took about a month to be completely flooded by bot spam.

Re: I was banned from the hCaptcha accessibility account for not being blind (2023)

#47
post #21

Why are captchas even a thing still? If folks want to scrape something or build an automation around something, then why not let them do it? They still have to respect the system they're logging in. Not to mention the privacy perk of not exposing your visitors to some captcha service with a dozen or more data subprocessors.

I assume you never tried to add a contact form to your website. Explanation: I did, and within a few days bots started sending me spam using that form. I just added a trivial captcha (hardcoded '2+3=' question), but if my scale was bigger that would be untenable. Think also of PM spam, autoregistering accounts to abuse free tiers, etc.

I guess I just wouldn't have an open unauthed form and require a CC to use the free-tier. The contact-me form can just be a mailto: link and let the spammers go through the spam filter like everyone else. There are places where captchas is all you can really do but it's not like common use-cases don't have other options.

Re: I was banned from the hCaptcha accessibility account for not being blind (2023)

#48
post #21

Why are captchas even a thing still? If folks want to scrape something or build an automation around something, then why not let them do it? They still have to respect the system they're logging in. Not to mention the privacy perk of not exposing your visitors to some captcha service with a dozen or more data subprocessors.

Because despite ZIRP being long over, there are still plenty of people/companies making money off "engagement" - aka wasting a human's time. Automation/scraping/etc would go around that.

I feel folks forget that whatever captchas do (or a large portion of), can be a library without the need for a strange, inaccessible 3rd party service call.

Re: I was banned from the hCaptcha accessibility account for not being blind (2023)

#49
post #22

Some captchas are getting pretty discriminatory, not everyone lives in the West and can identify the objects they are asking you to. Another recent one sticks out where they asked me to pick a shape as the same number of conoids on screen. If you ask people on a street what a conoids I bet a significant amount will give you blank looks Also at least now I know some people call those markings crosswalks

Sorry I live in the west, what's a "crosswalk" Did you mean to say > not everyone lives in the USA Other things I don't have a clue about - a fire hydrant, yellow taxis, yellow buses (Obviously I do, because of American cultural imperialism through things like Captchas which mean the world has to understand American cultural touchstones)

[flagged]

Re: I was banned from the hCaptcha accessibility account for not being blind (2023)

#50
post #28
post #21

Why are captchas even a thing still? If folks want to scrape something or build an automation around something, then why not let them do it? They still have to respect the system they're logging in. Not to mention the privacy perk of not exposing your visitors to some captcha service with a dozen or more data subprocessors.

Captchas are used for many things, and the reason they are still a thing is because they mostly work. Especially fingerprinting invisible captchas. Try having a login form without a captcha and you'll realize you are capturing 100s of users every day that require you to send out a "please confirm your email address" email for each of them for no good reason. > They still have to respect the system they're logging in.…

I think folks forget that we can add many of the safeguards a captchas provide as part of whatever "form serving app" is needed without torturing our visitors to prove they can count bicycles.
Post reply on HN