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Magic Circle tries to track down first female member – who posed as a man

theguardian.com

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Re: Magic Circle tries to track down first female member – who posed as a man

#41

Post by MrMcCall »

poincaredisk wrote: post #28
MrMcCall wrote: post #19

"I would never join a club that would have me as a member." --Groucho Marx The pity is that most people are naive enough to believe that most other people are decent human beings. It took me nearly five decades to understand that I shouldn't project my basic sense of decency on others, which is a grave mistake as most people are just selfish, exclusionary morons who think they're on the 'expert' side of the Dunning-K…

>The pity is that most people are naive enough to believe that most other people are decent human beings If most means "over 50%", isn't that a contradiction? (people who assume others are good are probably good too) In truth by far most people are good, but: * we are held back by out human nature - tribalism, xenophobia, fear of things that are different * there are indeed some bad actors who use this to their advan…

People are capable of being good, by nature. Because of free will, however, they are also capable of being selfish, to the detriment of others.

We each sit upon the razor's edge, with the free will to be how we are, each day anew, to embrace selfishness or selflessness.

That most people embrace the selfishness of their tribe is evident by world events, my friend. How many tribes embrace selfless service to humanity and have power in this world? Not nearly enough.

Re: Magic Circle tries to track down first female member – who posed as a man

#42

Post by bryanlarsen »

MrMcCall wrote: post #39
bryanlarsen wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people are both decent human beings and moderately selfish. It's just the nature of being human. Humans have flaws. But some people definitely are not decent human beings. Just like if you have a couple apples in the barrel that are spoiled you have to treat the whole barrel as spoiled, we have enough evil human beings to spoil the whole barrelful.

If most people were decent human beings and only moderately selfish, the world's governments and UN would work much, much differently than they do now. As well, America's recent election would have gone much differently. Ignorance is selfish, lying is selfish, letting the greedy become wealthier is selfish, and any and all oppression is selfish. Global heating is caused by selfishness born of ignorance, and that igno…

IMO that is all explained by the second part of my comment.

A few people are not decent, and it only takes a small number of those to ruin it for everyone.

Re: Magic Circle tries to track down first female member – who posed as a man

#43

Post by MrMcCall »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #42
MrMcCall wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If most people were decent human beings and only moderately selfish, the world's governments and UN would work much, much differently than they do now. As well, America's recent election would have gone much differently. Ignorance is selfish, lying is selfish, letting the greedy become wealthier is selfish, and any and all oppression is selfish. Global heating is caused by selfishness born of ignorance, and that igno…

IMO that is all explained by the second part of my comment. A few people are not decent, and it only takes a small number of those to ruin it for everyone.

What was just done in America is going to hurt people all across the world, and it was not a small number of people.

Re: Magic Circle tries to track down first female member – who posed as a man

#44

Post by dgfitz »

binarymax wrote: post #8
diggan wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The organization first was male-only. A woman disguised herself as a man, and managed to join the organization. 18 months later, the organization stopped being male-only and would start accepting women to join too. The disguised woman undisguised herself, and the existing members got shocked enough that even if women were now allowed, they were so angry at her "deliberate deception" that she got kicked out regardless…

The irony of a bunch of magicians being angry at deception was lost on them it seems.

Phenomenal comment, this got a smile out of me.

Re: Magic Circle tries to track down first female member – who posed as a man

#45

Post by nimbius »

“We’re already in talks about making a movie of her extraordinary heist.”

So that's why we suddenly had a change of misogynists' heart after thirty three years.

Magic Circle needs this expelled members written consent to use their likeness in film.

Re: Magic Circle tries to track down first female member – who posed as a man

#46

Post by potato3732842 »

crazygringo wrote: post #24

Wait -- the Magic Circle didn't admit female members until 1991 ?! I thought the 1960's and 70's were when all the all-male universities and other organizations opened up to women. And that mostly groups left after that were those that had a functional reason for being all-male, i.e. male tenor-bass choirs. Or certain male "fraternal" organizations. But magic obviously doesn't have any functional reason for being mal…

We're talking about a niche professional organization with annual membership in the mid to high hundreds at the time. Based on what wikipedia says about the process of getting in I assume churn is stupid low. I would find it unlikely but not at all unbelievable that the rule was never actually tested from the mid 1970s until 1991.

Considering the subject matter of the organization it wouldn't surprise me if there were some other women pretending to be men who weren't kicked out. With really turnover being only 18mo in probably made her a boat rocking newb in the eyes of leadership at the time.

Re: Magic Circle tries to track down first female member – who posed as a man

#47

Post by bryanlarsen »

MrMcCall wrote: post #43
bryanlarsen wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO that is all explained by the second part of my comment. A few people are not decent, and it only takes a small number of those to ruin it for everyone.

What was just done in America is going to hurt people all across the world, and it was not a small number of people.

> it was not a small number of people.

Exactly. The laws of the mob apply.

Gather a large number of decent people. Seed that mob with a small number of evil people. Now that mob is evil.

Re: Magic Circle tries to track down first female member – who posed as a man

#48

Post by MrMcCall »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #47
MrMcCall wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was just done in America is going to hurt people all across the world, and it was not a small number of people.

> it was not a small number of people. Exactly. The laws of the mob apply. Gather a large number of decent people. Seed that mob with a small number of evil people. Now that mob is evil.

A large number of decent people do not become evil; they resist evil, denounce it. By definition, a good person cannot be swayed by evil people. Only the morally ignorant and callous can be swayed by evil. Yes, that is the majority; it always has been.

People who have no spiritual growth do not understand this fact. In fact, they deny it, even as it is happening right in front of their face.

Lack of spiritual growth prevents a person from comprehending the facts of evil. A person of worldly means usually has an even more difficult time apprehending such facts.

That a flat Earther has never looked through a telescope does not make their opinions fact, yet how they deny the truth, huh?

Re: Magic Circle tries to track down first female member – who posed as a man

#50

Post by TeMPOraL »

MrMcCall wrote: post #48
bryanlarsen wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it was not a small number of people. Exactly. The laws of the mob apply. Gather a large number of decent people. Seed that mob with a small number of evil people. Now that mob is evil.

A large number of decent people do not become evil; they resist evil, denounce it. By definition, a good person cannot be swayed by evil people. Only the morally ignorant and callous can be swayed by evil. Yes, that is the majority; it always has been. People who have no spiritual growth do not understand this fact. In fact, they deny it, even as it is happening right in front of their face. Lack of spiritual growth…

> By definition, a good person cannot be swayed by evil people. Only the morally ignorant and callous can be swayed by evil.

Unfortunately, that flies in the face of everything both science and religion say. It's a rare case when the two agree on a point, but this one is it.

(Unfortunately for your argument; fortunately for humankind.)

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