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Is 3D printing being held back by an invalid patent?

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Re: Is 3D printing being held back by an invalid patent?

#41
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Risk. Whenever you provide legal advice, you take on risk. And big or small, there is always the possibility that that risk might end your career and cause years of training to go up in smoke. Lawyers are experts in risk management, which is why you see them trying to minimize risk and exposure in every way possible. (Lawyer here.)

Have you ever considered wearing a helmet in day-to-day life? I'm just curious how far flights of fancy might go for people dealing with risk management constantly.

I bet you'd find a higher percentage of lawyers' kids wearing helmets biking than average. And fewer of them owning trampolines.

Re: Is 3D printing being held back by an invalid patent?

#42

I'm an attorney who litigates patents. I also write about IP litigation at https://ipde.com . A patent can be invalidated by a court during litigation or through procedures at the U.S. Patent Office, such as inter partes review or an ex partes reexamination. When asking whether an earlier patent renders a later patent invalid, the fact finder will generally look at anticipation and obviousness. Anticipation means tha…

> 35 U.S.C. § 102. Obviousness means that the claimed invention as a whole would have been obvious to a person of skill in the art, under 35 U.S.C. § 103.

This is the part that always gets me. Having read through over a couple thousand patents, it is my opinion that the vast majority of them are obvious to anyone skilled in the art. Some of them are so ridiculous that a university student about to finish a relevant degree would consider the claims obvious.

This bothers me deeply because patents that should not have been granted force us to play a patent arms race. If the other side has an axe, you have to have an equal or better axe...and it gets nastier from there.

In some industry sectors you'd be crazy to put out a product without ensuring you have enough legal weapons of IP war to protect yourself from other IP as well as slow down or eliminate copy cats and competitors who will gladly take advantage your your "R" (Research) at zero cost. In "R&D" the "R" is usually the most expensive phase. Once you know what you are building the "D" tends to be simpler, shorter and costs significantly less.

It stands to reason that getting a patent should become more and more difficult over time. As more is invented the "art" and those skilled in it become more sophisticated. Which means the rate of true invention should (not fake invention) should come down to an asymptotic level. We should see less true patents per year, not more fluff patents per year.

Re: Is 3D printing being held back by an invalid patent?

#43
post #31
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were a lawyer then you'd be bound by bar standards and such. But you're not, so why the disclaimer? Is there some legal jeopardy a non-lawyer places themselves in by talking about the law? If so that sounds positively dystopian. More generally I am entirely supportive of not giving unsolicited advice of any sort. Not for legal reasons, but because it's presumptuous, rude, and often even pompous.

I believe atrettel wanted to be transparent about the nature of their reply more than protecting themselves from jeopardy. Also, this is not unsolicited as OP has asked a specific question to the community.

I wanted to be both transparent and protect myself by adding the disclaimer. I perhaps should have added that I am not a lawyer to make it clearer.

Re: Is 3D printing being held back by an invalid patent?

#44
post #26

This comment is not legal advice. This comment is merely for educational purposes. The quote that you have about the 1997 patent, namely "U.S. Pat. No. 5,659,925 teaches a process for adjusting the deposition rate..." is from the specification. That is written by either the inventors or more likely the attorneys filing the application. The specification is not legally enforceable or binding. It is supposed to disclos…

> This comment is not legal advice. Serious question, why do lawyers always do this? No other profession seems to feel the need to disclaim their dialog. Is there some precedent for attorneys discussing their area of expertise and unwittingly becoming someone’s counsel?

There are several other professions which do it. Doctors and financial advisers immediately spring to mind. It's bound to happen in any tightly regulated profession where the professional is expected to give potentially life altering advice as part of their services.

Re: Is 3D printing being held back by an invalid patent?

#45
post #26

This comment is not legal advice. This comment is merely for educational purposes. The quote that you have about the 1997 patent, namely "U.S. Pat. No. 5,659,925 teaches a process for adjusting the deposition rate..." is from the specification. That is written by either the inventors or more likely the attorneys filing the application. The specification is not legally enforceable or binding. It is supposed to disclos…

> This comment is not legal advice. Serious question, why do lawyers always do this? No other profession seems to feel the need to disclaim their dialog. Is there some precedent for attorneys discussing their area of expertise and unwittingly becoming someone’s counsel?

This makes sense to me and other comments have covered why plenty well, but what does frustrate me is the constant insistence that nothing should ever be discussed in public and you must consult your own lawyer privately for every bit of basic information. That's just not realistic for the majority of people and even plenty of small businesses with how much lawyers cost.

Re: Is 3D printing being held back by an invalid patent?

#46
post #41
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever considered wearing a helmet in day-to-day life? I'm just curious how far flights of fancy might go for people dealing with risk management constantly.

I bet you'd find a higher percentage of lawyers' kids wearing helmets biking than average. And fewer of them owning trampolines.

When I was a kid, I really wanted a trampoline.

Now that I'm an adult and video websites exist, I'm REALLY glad I never got one. I almost certainly would have broken my back or next while attempting a flip, or broken an ankle by having more than one person on it.

Re: Is 3D printing being held back by an invalid patent?

#47
post #26

This comment is not legal advice. This comment is merely for educational purposes. The quote that you have about the 1997 patent, namely "U.S. Pat. No. 5,659,925 teaches a process for adjusting the deposition rate..." is from the specification. That is written by either the inventors or more likely the attorneys filing the application. The specification is not legally enforceable or binding. It is supposed to disclos…

> This comment is not legal advice. Serious question, why do lawyers always do this? No other profession seems to feel the need to disclaim their dialog. Is there some precedent for attorneys discussing their area of expertise and unwittingly becoming someone’s counsel?

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Re: Is 3D printing being held back by an invalid patent?

#48
post #19
post #13

The real problem is that patent system seems ripe for abuse. Even if the "invention" is not a valid patent, companies want to patent it anyway, as to force the other side to expend resources to prove it's not valid. There's a couple Bambu Lab patents that probably should not have been granted with prior art in open source.

> There's a couple Bambu Lab patents that probably should not have been granted with prior art in open source. The open source world should come together and get them invalidated.

It's not a problem unless Bambu Lab starts suing.

Bambu Lab's biggest competitor isn't Prusa. It's Stratysys.

Stratysys shipments dropped in the past several quarters after the introduction of the Bambu printers about 2 years ago.

Re: Is 3D printing being held back by an invalid patent?

#49

This comment is not legal advice. This comment is merely for educational purposes. The quote that you have about the 1997 patent, namely "U.S. Pat. No. 5,659,925 teaches a process for adjusting the deposition rate..." is from the specification. That is written by either the inventors or more likely the attorneys filing the application. The specification is not legally enforceable or binding. It is supposed to disclos…

> The quote that you have about the 1997 patent, namely "U.S. Pat. No. 5,659,925 teaches a process for adjusting the deposition rate..." is from the specification. > I should note that it does not appear that the patent examiner considered the 1997 patent directly relevant because they did not cite it... However, they likely did at least look at it since it is listed in the specification. Again that quote from the sp…

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Re: Is 3D printing being held back by an invalid patent?

#50
post #16

disclaimer, I am not an expert in patent litigation but have been involved in and hold several patents) also, hold my beer and watch this. Having read the claims on both patents (US2023/11813789B2, US1997/5653925A) , it still seems pretty sus to me on both sides of the fence. The basic concept of of the geometric layer pattern is identical in the claims and illustrations in both patents, but the expired patent mentio…

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