Sixteen U.S. states still ban community-owned broadband networks • Hacker News Board

Re: Sixteen U.S. states still ban community-owned broadband networks

#41

Post by bluejekyll » Thu, Nov 07, 2024, 3:02 PM UTC

plussed_reader wrote: post #12

And this won't change for at least the next 4 years. Regulatory capture is a bitch.

This debate about regulations is alway interesting. There are regulations which help protect the environment, like not being allowed to dump dangerous chemicals into your local stream or river.

Then there are regulations like these which are aimed at protecting the investment companies have made into infrastructure, effectively granting them a monopoly.

When people debate this, they often are thinking of the first class of protective regulations that are too onerous on companies, but I think most people like clean drinking water and rivers that no longer catch fire.

Whereas the second class of protection is really harmful to the consumer, and the powers-that-be have effectively been given a monopoly, and with that the money and power to protect their place in the market through continued influence on elections and other things to maintain these rent seeking businesses. We all hate the latter, but these companies have a lot of sway over politicians.

Re: Sixteen U.S. states still ban community-owned broadband networks

#42

Post by gosub100 » Thu, Nov 07, 2024, 3:03 PM UTC

mrbluecoat wrote: post #2

Once space-based broadband Internet becomes widely available, I predict shortsighted ISPs will join the ranks of Kodak and Blockbuster.

I hope so but I don't think any constellation can handle even a medium sized town without significant throttling.

Re: Sixteen U.S. states still ban community-owned broadband networks

#43

Post by pc86 » Thu, Nov 07, 2024, 3:06 PM UTC

plussed_reader wrote: post #12

And this won't change for at least the next 4 years. Regulatory capture is a bitch.

These are state laws, the Presidential election has nothing to do with this.

Re: Sixteen U.S. states still ban community-owned broadband networks

#44

Post by paxys » Thu, Nov 07, 2024, 3:09 PM UTC

mrbluecoat wrote: post #2

Once space-based broadband Internet becomes widely available, I predict shortsighted ISPs will join the ranks of Kodak and Blockbuster.

It takes 5 minutes of back of the envelope calculations to realize that this is a pipe dream. Starlink isn't a substitute for fiber internet, it's a substitute for no internet.

Re: Sixteen U.S. states still ban community-owned broadband networks

#45

Post by gosub100 » Thu, Nov 07, 2024, 3:09 PM UTC

bluejekyll wrote: post #41

plussed_reader wrote: post #12

And this won't change for at least the next 4 years. Regulatory capture is a bitch.

This debate about regulations is alway interesting. There are regulations which help protect the environment, like not being allowed to dump dangerous chemicals into your local stream or river. Then there are regulations like these which are aimed at protecting the investment companies have made into infrastructure, effectively granting them a monopoly. When people debate this, they often are thinking of the first cl…

And from the article, the telecom industry receives billions in corporate welfare. A common argument against cutting it off is that telecom is capital intensive infrastructure, and if you cut their govbux you're blocking poor people from being able to communicate, we all deserve the right to communicate. But if that's your take, how can you also hate the protectionist laws? Telecom are given a monopoly because it doesn't make sense to, say, have N sets of telephone poles or power lines from each provider.

Re: Sixteen U.S. states still ban community-owned broadband networks

#46

Post by phil21 » Thu, Nov 07, 2024, 3:11 PM UTC

jvanderbot wrote: post #36

josefresco wrote: post #30

Sixteen states (down from 21), detailed here: https://communitynets.org/content/state-state-preemption-sta... Despite this ban, many communities in these states have pushed forward.

And there's more good news. Minnesota is not on that map, but Minnesota has moved in very good directions re: ISPs. My rural neighbors have community internet, and it's _good_. High quality fiber. I have centurylink - ok not a community plan, but it competes directly with T-mobile, Xfinity (comcast), and other cell-based providers, and provides an excellent product for much cheaper. And I know for a fact that colorad…

Centurylink mentioned in the same ballpark as a "community network" is hilarious to me, having grown up in Minnesota.

It's literally the incumbent Bell provider - back in the day being AT&T and then USWest after the antitrust breakup.

Times certainly have changed for someone to even have this thought, much less write it down!

Re: Sixteen U.S. states still ban community-owned broadband networks

#47

Post by pmb » Thu, Nov 07, 2024, 3:12 PM UTC

mrbluecoat wrote: post #2

Once space-based broadband Internet becomes widely available, I predict shortsighted ISPs will join the ranks of Kodak and Blockbuster.

No. Satellite (except when they use lasers, but nobody is proposing space lasers) is a broadcast medium and wire is point to point. Wires will almost always be cheaper and more reliable and faster on a per-customer basis and have less interference.

Re: Sixteen U.S. states still ban community-owned broadband networks

#48

Post by vel0city » Thu, Nov 07, 2024, 3:14 PM UTC

conradev wrote: post #34

mrbluecoat wrote: post #2

Once space-based broadband Internet becomes widely available, I predict shortsighted ISPs will join the ranks of Kodak and Blockbuster.

Or maybe, if we’re lucky, they’ll have to compete on quality as well as price. When Verizon laid down fiber optic cable in my (former) neighborhood, it was so much better than Xfinity’s service, and everyone I knew switched. Not to say that the type of physical cable matters as much, DOCSIS 4.0 is in the cards, but latency and bandwidth will always be better on a (good) wired connection. One quirk worth mentioning, t…

> WWAN did leap-frog WLAN with 5G and especially with ultra-wideband

> Until I installed 6GHz Wi-Fi

So after you upgraded your WLAN it was faster than your WAN until you bothered upgrading your WLAN.

That's a personal deployment decision not necessarily a matter of what was or wasn't' available at the time. >1G WiFi existed years before ultra-wideband was a thing.

Re: Sixteen U.S. states still ban community-owned broadband networks

#49

Post by waveBidder » Thu, Nov 07, 2024, 3:14 PM UTC

jvanderbot wrote: post #36

josefresco wrote: post #30

Sixteen states (down from 21), detailed here: https://communitynets.org/content/state-state-preemption-sta... Despite this ban, many communities in these states have pushed forward.

And there's more good news. Minnesota is not on that map, but Minnesota has moved in very good directions re: ISPs. My rural neighbors have community internet, and it's _good_. High quality fiber. I have centurylink - ok not a community plan, but it competes directly with T-mobile, Xfinity (comcast), and other cell-based providers, and provides an excellent product for much cheaper. And I know for a fact that colorad…

I've been confused by that law, because I'm pretty sure Bemidji has an internet coop (which is quite good, especially for a small town like it).

Re: Sixteen U.S. states still ban community-owned broadband networks

#50

Post by ravenstine » Thu, Nov 07, 2024, 3:15 PM UTC

mrbluecoat wrote: post #2

Once space-based broadband Internet becomes widely available, I predict shortsighted ISPs will join the ranks of Kodak and Blockbuster.

We don't even need space based broadband for this. Terrestrial radio (5G and LTE) already will gradually drink the milkshake of most cable and fiber based ISPs.