Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 229 posts

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#41

Post by chii »

tightbookkeeper wrote: post #37
chii wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's less incentive for China to control Taiwan. a very minor effect imho. china doesn't want to control taiwan due to any economic reasons. It's ideological. China doesn't want the model of a free, democratic society of chinese people to exist, because it proves that the CCP's authoritarianism isn't the only "good" model. Look at how hong kong was cracked down; china took the opportunity to do it, when the econ…

But Chinese citizens know the US exists? This feels like projection. The US wants to act as if stock markets and political yard signs are the only usable system.

> But Chinese citizens know the US exists?

of course, but the US is not mostly composed of chinese people.

It is common belief in china that the state governance by the CCP is doing good for the country, and the proof is economic progress, material wealth and geopolitical strength.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#42

Post by Uvix »

spartanatreyu wrote: post #15
lithiumii wrote: post #8

The more they sell, the less likely China & others are going to make a real alternative.

They will still make a real alternative, it's in their own national security interests to do so.

If national security interests drove development, the US would have local manufacturing of current-process-node chips instead of being dependent on TSMC.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#43

Post by [deleted] »

tightbookkeeper wrote: post #37
chii wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's less incentive for China to control Taiwan. a very minor effect imho. china doesn't want to control taiwan due to any economic reasons. It's ideological. China doesn't want the model of a free, democratic society of chinese people to exist, because it proves that the CCP's authoritarianism isn't the only "good" model. Look at how hong kong was cracked down; china took the opportunity to do it, when the econ…

But Chinese citizens know the US exists? This feels like projection. The US wants to act as if stock markets and political yard signs are the only usable system.

[deleted]

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#44

Post by bottom999mottob »

burningChrome wrote: post #36
nemothekid wrote: post #27

We will see what happens - but given nvidias growth and how heavy they are now weighted I’m skeptical there will be any enforcement until well after the elections. Neither party wants to look “bad for the economy”, even if the people harmed isn’t of significant size.

>> Neither party wants to look “bad for the economy You mean like the horrific jobs numbers that came out that nobody is covering either? Like bad like that??

Nobody is a a bit of an exaggeration. Anyone who has been following finance noticed many major US news outlets covering when the job numbers dropped [0]. Yes it was really only covered for a day because the election hype is a bigger story.

Why did nobody talk about the floods in Nepal or mass suicides in Sudan? Clearly we should all be talking about jobs and the US economy!

[0] https://news.google.com/search?q=job%20numbers&hl=en-US&gl=U...

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#45

Post by [deleted] »

burningChrome wrote: post #36
nemothekid wrote: post #27

We will see what happens - but given nvidias growth and how heavy they are now weighted I’m skeptical there will be any enforcement until well after the elections. Neither party wants to look “bad for the economy”, even if the people harmed isn’t of significant size.

>> Neither party wants to look “bad for the economy You mean like the horrific jobs numbers that came out that nobody is covering either? Like bad like that??

[deleted]

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#46

Post by typ »

I agree that export restrictions would potentially help the advantage in the AI race to some extent, however, the primary factor that leads to the tech advancement and China's dominance in manufacturing is not where the US sells to, but where the US buys from. I would say the best resource to advance an industry is not IP thefting or government subsidies but the tech leaders' purchase orders (and customers' specifications and requirements learned from those orders). For instance, AAPL has contributed to the progress of the component supply chain and then the emergence of a bunch of China phone companies. Later TSLA did the same for the Lithium-ion batteries companies and the EV industry in China.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#47

Post by gmueckl »

KK7NIL wrote: post #39
Tier3r wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There exists a third possibility where the US and China sign an under the table deal for China to invade, the US to saber rattle and China to allow the flow of chips to continue. The present direction seems to be the US is "de-risking" from Taiwan by moving chip production to the US, so if China does invade they aren't caught in a bind.

> The present direction seems to be the US is "de-risking" from Taiwan by moving chip production to the US, so if China does invade they aren't caught in a bind. This idea that the US is protecting Taiwan for its semiconductor prowess (aka the "silicon shield") is a very confusing idea to me as it ignores the period from the 40's to the 90's when Taiwan had no semiconductor manufacturing that wasn't being done as wel…

China was a commie state like the USSR countries back then. I don't see how the west could have treated one as the idiologocal archenemy and nemesis and not extent the same animosity to the other.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#48

Post by voidfunc »

KK7NIL wrote: post #39
Tier3r wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There exists a third possibility where the US and China sign an under the table deal for China to invade, the US to saber rattle and China to allow the flow of chips to continue. The present direction seems to be the US is "de-risking" from Taiwan by moving chip production to the US, so if China does invade they aren't caught in a bind.

> The present direction seems to be the US is "de-risking" from Taiwan by moving chip production to the US, so if China does invade they aren't caught in a bind. This idea that the US is protecting Taiwan for its semiconductor prowess (aka the "silicon shield") is a very confusing idea to me as it ignores the period from the 40's to the 90's when Taiwan had no semiconductor manufacturing that wasn't being done as wel…

The politics of the US are very different from the 40's to 90's. Good luck explaining to the American public why a bunch of their kids need to go die defending the Taiwanese in 2024 unless you can base it in some cold hard economic reality.

The reason we supported them back in the 20th century is because the Red Scare was the big boogeyman of the time and we needed military bases and friendlies in that part of the world.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#49

Post by sroussey »

typ wrote: post #46

I agree that export restrictions would potentially help the advantage in the AI race to some extent, however, the primary factor that leads to the tech advancement and China's dominance in manufacturing is not where the US sells to, but where the US buys from. I would say the best resource to advance an industry is not IP thefting or government subsidies but the tech leaders' purchase orders (and customers' specifica…

And the US will swoop in and move TMSC employees to Arizona.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#50

Post by mullingitover »

chii wrote: post #35
bruce511 wrote: post #30

Nvidia is obviously a US company, but the chips themselves are manufactured in Taiwan. And of course China sees Taiwan as a rogue province, at at least treats invasion there as "on the table". While the US may decide to actively support Taiwan, at the very least a war over that will disrupt production. Should Taiwan fall, and China choose to ban exports from there to the US, then the fun and games would really start.…

> there's less incentive for China to control Taiwan. a very minor effect imho. china doesn't want to control taiwan due to any economic reasons. It's ideological. China doesn't want the model of a free, democratic society of chinese people to exist, because it proves that the CCP's authoritarianism isn't the only "good" model. Look at how hong kong was cracked down; china took the opportunity to do it, when the econ…

> China doesn't want the model of a free, democratic society of chinese people to exist, because it proves that the CCP's authoritarianism isn't the only "good" model.

So was everything with Taiwan hunky dory when they were a murderous military dictatorship for all those decades[1]?

I thought the under-mentioned beef China had with Taiwan was the fact that the ROC took (and retains to this day) all the priceless cultural artifacts. The CCP would like those back in order to tie themselves to China's history.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan)

Post reply on HN