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A Better Way to Load a Plane

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Re: A Better Way to Load a Plane

#41
post #34

This is pointless, because boarding time does not waste any time. When a plane lands, it has to stay in the airport for quite a bit of time in most cases - even if you made boarding more efficient, you would not save any time. Refueling, getting in the right take off slot take longer than boarding the plane. And the question is - does this method feel better to the passengers getting on? I don't know, but I kinda dou…

I don't think the time taken for refueling, etc is the limiting factor. There are a couple sequences of events that need to happen (simultaneously) to get the plane ready to leave. Sequence 1: allow arriving passengers to deplane, then clean the plane, board new passengers Sequence 2: Refueling, other maintenance Sequence 3: load checked baggage The time taken to ready the plane is the maximum of the times for the 3…

Sequence 3: Unload checked baggage, then load the new baggage.

Still - agreed - the unload/clean/board sequence in probably the longest one

Re: A Better Way to Load a Plane

#42
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boarding passengers takes less than 20 minutes in most cases. Even with very fast airlines like easyjet, the plane sits longer the passengers board. Also, you know that airports queue planes, right? So a plane can't just hurry up to fill in passengers and take off. And in any case, why? Let's say you saved enough time to make an extra trip in a single day, then it would be worth it, but this is not going to save it.…

> "Also, you know that airports queue planes, right?" Yeah, but usually a queued plane is waiting on the tarmac, not at the gate, right? Fixing boarding delays may not always lead to earlier takeoffs, but it can definitely get planes pushed out of the gate faster (freeing that gate for other planes). Also, boarding time probably depends a lot on the type of plane (ie, even more so than fueling time does). I fly trans…

If you fly transatlantic, then those planes require more than an hour on the ground before flight. And planes get queue times allocated as soon as possible and pre-planned, not just when they leave.

Re: A Better Way to Load a Plane

#43
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traveling Ryanair or other budget airlines, you get a "sequence number" which is the order in which you've checked in, theoretically this is also the order in which you board (seating is unassigned). But then you get there and they say "families traveling with children board first" and as this is an Irish airlines that's, umm, everyone but me. Which is understandable perhaps if people want to sit together, but hey, d…

The good news is that exit rows are desirable, and children and their keepers are prohibited (in the US, anyway) from sitting in them. So they can pre-board all they want, and not take away any of the good seats. (Of course, people are idiots. The one time I flew Southwest, I was on standby and boarded last -- the only remaining seat was an exit row. I was amazed.)

I recently flew Southwest and sat in an exit row. The flight attendant came by to give her spiel, and the 100 pound young woman sitting next to me expressed doubt that she could lift 50 pounds. I think it took about 5 minutes of pleading(!) with the rest of the completely full plane to find a volunteer to change seats with her.

Re: A Better Way to Load a Plane

#44
post #3

"it turns out that the best method (one of several more or less equivalent methods) calls for passengers in even-numbered window seats near the back of the plane to board first", followed by even middle, even front, and odd rows int same order. I think I would be very annoyed if I arrived first and was the last to board, but the article says that its method is 6x faster than the current method.

Why? I intentionally get on the plane as late as I possibly can.

Re: A Better Way to Load a Plane

#45
A sort of related anecdote: one time I was on a plane where there was some sort of medical emergency in the back, so we had to wait to let paramedics get on. Eventually they had the patient stabilized but needed to do more work before he could be moved, so they allowed the plane to be unloaded as long as the aisles could be cleared quickly if they needed to get through. In order to allow this, the crew only let one row at a time to stand up. I wish I would've timed how long it took, but it was definitely much shorter than the time it usually takes to get off when there is no organization.

Re: A Better Way to Load a Plane

#46

This is pointless, because boarding time does not waste any time. When a plane lands, it has to stay in the airport for quite a bit of time in most cases - even if you made boarding more efficient, you would not save any time. Refueling, getting in the right take off slot take longer than boarding the plane. And the question is - does this method feel better to the passengers getting on? I don't know, but I kinda dou…

Obviously many people would enjoy faster boarding times, but the article barely mentions the huge problems that would come from splitting up families. When a family's 8-year-old has the window seat, they're expected to enter the plane alone and stow their bag in the overhead compartment? The only time this is mentioned is where it says "The outcome is fairly robust in that it's relatively insensitive to deviations be…

I'd imagine that's why nearly all boarding calls have a separate group for "families with small children", usually called first.

Re: A Better Way to Load a Plane

#47
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the time taken for refueling, etc is the limiting factor. There are a couple sequences of events that need to happen (simultaneously) to get the plane ready to leave. Sequence 1: allow arriving passengers to deplane, then clean the plane, board new passengers Sequence 2: Refueling, other maintenance Sequence 3: load checked baggage The time taken to ready the plane is the maximum of the times for the 3…

Boarding passengers takes less than 20 minutes in most cases. Even with very fast airlines like easyjet, the plane sits longer the passengers board. Also, you know that airports queue planes, right? So a plane can't just hurry up to fill in passengers and take off. And in any case, why? Let's say you saved enough time to make an extra trip in a single day, then it would be worth it, but this is not going to save it.…

In 3 of the last 4 flights I've taken, boarding was the limiting factor. We left the gate within 5 minutes after the last person boarded, and were airborne shortly after without having to wait on the tarmac. On one of those flights, the plane didn't finish boarding until 10-15 minutes after it was scheduled to take off.

Curiously, the one exception was a United red-eye back from SF to Boston. And I think they may've been using this boarding method - the gate attendants said that the boarding groups were window seats first, then middle, then aisle. There certainly was no rhyme or reason to seating within boarding groups, and there were about 12 boarding groups.

Re: A Better Way to Load a Plane

#48
Airline recap: entirely focused on operations, always on the brink of collapse. Operations consist largely of optimizations problems, so lots of attention is paid to these problems (peanuts vs. pretzels). For whatever reason customers are not insulated from the volatility (pretzels, bag fees, route duration, availability, etc., in addition to price fluctuation).

Typically you see finely-tuned optimization in old and evolved markets, e.g., cola, where it makes sense, and where customers are insulated from changes in the product or service. Here though it reeks of over-optimization and misapplied attention. Nobody makes a fuss about boarding the bus. When the price of corn goes up I don't have to use a can-opener on my soda.

What's wrong with airplanes? Why don't they work like buses? Let's try to figure this out. Investors have long recognized airlines as a valuable service but a terrible business.

1.) We really like to fly but our technology is behind the curve?

2.) Irrationality of consumers has created government controls which muck too much with an already fragile system? (security lines, shoe removal, bomb sniffing, personal searches, over-training of pilots, too-expensive pilots, burdensome safety regulations, burdensome inspections, all of these perpetuated by expectation)

3.) The average passenger does not fly enough, and so he is inefficient?

4.) Dependent on fixed-location airports? And their regulation?

5.) There's no clear cause and effect, it's simply a manifestation of the system?

6.) ?

7.) Demand for flight is very volatile but the capital which supports it is very expensive and illiquid?

(one red-herring: fuel efficiency, planes appear to be more fuel efficient than driving alone)

(another red-herring: this google hit http://www.brookings.edu/testimony/2005/0928business_morriso... states the obvious but does little to explain what makes the airline industry any different from anybody else dependent on large capital investments. sure they have to buy planes. and cola bottlers have to build plants.)

Re: A Better Way to Load a Plane

#49

This is pointless, because boarding time does not waste any time. When a plane lands, it has to stay in the airport for quite a bit of time in most cases - even if you made boarding more efficient, you would not save any time. Refueling, getting in the right take off slot take longer than boarding the plane. And the question is - does this method feel better to the passengers getting on? I don't know, but I kinda dou…

Just to clarify, once the plane is wo passengers, its a race against time, people clean the plane at the same time its being refueled, and as soon as it is clean you can board it, and as soon as its loaded you can leave. So any minute means money.

Re: A Better Way to Load a Plane

#50

For simplicity, his model assumes a plane with 120 passengers seated in 40 rows, each with a central aisle having three seats to the left and three seats to the right of it. So this only works with 50% occupancy? 120/(40*(3+3))

Well, ABC's blurb is wrong. The model assumes 20 rows, not 40.

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0802/0802.0733v2.pdf

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