I hope the landowner wins his case. Wildlife officers need to follow the Constitution.
I'm not getting the impression from the article that wildlife officers, a whole group of people, are running roughshod over the US Constitution.
Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent
41–50 of 106 posts
Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not a fan of vouchers in general, especially if they allow public funds to go to religious institutions, but educational choice (as IJ terms it) is a tricky area. A lot of times these programs allow people to move between public schools or get additional funds for alternative programs that better suit their children's needs.
Why shouldn't finds go to religious institutions? I lived in a western country that allows public funding for religious schools, which I attended while growing up. The schools are still fulfilling a public need of educating students. Is it because they are religious?
Depends if the school is serious about educating students or being a weird ass cult. In the US we have issues with cults throughout our history.
Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent
#43I'm torn on this one: Should law enforcement need a warrant to search your property? Certainly. Seems obvious, right? Except this is a "conservation officer" who has been granted certain rights (by the state of PA) to: Enter upon any land or water in the performance of their duties. See: https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?... If they couldn't move between properties along shorelines they'd ha…
Moving along a shoreline is different from trespassing on the curtilage of someone's home.
Except he never actually entered the home... He knocked and then left.
Also - despite the repeated attempts at implying it in the article, I really don't suspect the guy is there to creep on an elderly cancer patient in her bathroom.
It sounds a lot like he's on land, which is not protected by the 4th, and he's there well within his scope of authority as granted by the state.
No trespassing signs only apply to someone there without permission. He explicitly has permission from the state. And trespassing is very clearly not "search".
Harassment? Possibly. Abuse of authority? Possibly. Illegal search? ehhh... probably not.
Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent
#44I'm torn on this one: Should law enforcement need a warrant to search your property? Certainly. Seems obvious, right? Except this is a "conservation officer" who has been granted certain rights (by the state of PA) to: Enter upon any land or water in the performance of their duties. See: https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?... If they couldn't move between properties along shorelines they'd ha…
Moving along a shoreline is different from trespassing on the curtilage of someone's home.
The exterior of a property (i.e. the land it sits on) is distinctly different from the interior. The 4th Amendment requires warrants to search the following:
persons, houses, papers, and effects,
> In Hester v. United States,1 the Court held that the Fourth Amendment did not protect “open fields” and that, therefore, police searches in such areas as pastures, wooded areas, *open water*, and vacant lots need not comply with the requirements of warrants and probable cause.
I also want to point out something very important regarding this case in particular: Curtilage is generally known to be the area between a front door and the street however if your property backs up to open water--and you have a back door--that area between the water and the back door also counts as curtilage.
Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent
#45> Beyond his main vocation as a chimney business owner, Thomas often drove for Lyft and Uber. After the criminal citation was filed, he automatically lost both driving jobs—banned by both companies due to the legal violation. For being found guilty (overturned on appeal) of fishing with more than 8 lines due to what is likely a vendetta on the part of the officer. A particularly succinct example of automated cruelty.…
Unfortunately, you can be denied employment for all sorts of unfair and ridiculous reasons--or for no reason at all. Not too much can be done without changing the law. I remember filling out a job application some time ago where one of the questions was "Have you ever been charged with a crime?" Not "convicted of". It wasn't a mistake, either. There was a footnote that said "You must answer YES to this question even…
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Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes the idea that the govt is the best at everything (let alone schooling...)
Once you grow up around a bunch of home schooled kids that only learned a bit of the Bible you begin to realize that having a wide ranging education across a bunch of topics is important to create people that aren't total gibbering idiots.
I've worked with a lot of engineers over the years who started off home schooled. Mostly they were from rural areas though.
Interestingly, I work with a lot of people who do have a stay-at-home partner and homeschool their kids in large cities.
Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent
#47> Beyond his main vocation as a chimney business owner, Thomas often drove for Lyft and Uber. After the criminal citation was filed, he automatically lost both driving jobs—banned by both companies due to the legal violation. For being found guilty (overturned on appeal) of fishing with more than 8 lines due to what is likely a vendetta on the part of the officer. A particularly succinct example of automated cruelty.…
Unfortunately, you can be denied employment for all sorts of unfair and ridiculous reasons--or for no reason at all. Not too much can be done without changing the law. I remember filling out a job application some time ago where one of the questions was "Have you ever been charged with a crime?" Not "convicted of". It wasn't a mistake, either. There was a footnote that said "You must answer YES to this question even…
That's shameful to do in the US, given our principles of justice.
Maybe it was negligent rather than intentional. For example, the company might've just been using some form they got from an outsourced service. Or a lawyer might've made the form for them, but using an obnoxius template (as templates tend to be, AFAICT).
So, when people are in this situation, they can try asking the company about it (a recruiter, HR contact, or the hiring manager). The company's response could be strong signal about the actual corporate culture you'd find if you joined.
(Personally, if I was a hiring manager, and didn't know that candidates had started seeing this form, I'd want to know, and I'd make sure the right people were looking at it. To see whether that was intended, is it legal, is it a message we want to send, etc.)
You could also try contacting a labor regulatory authority or state AG's office, to see whether it's even legal. And/or, contact a state lawmaker, and suggest that it seems unconstitutional. It might even be an arguable EEOC violation where you are (e.g., if some protected group there is more likely to have adverse interactions even when innocent).
Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
I imagine the state sees the land as their property, which private individuals don't, strictly speaking, own but merely hold infinite lease on (land tax = rent price, eminent domain = one-side lease termination with compensation, etc). This legal philosophy arguably makes some theoretical sense but has rather unpalatable practical consequences.
It's not a "legal philosophy" that's how states work (i.e. it is their land). The state always controls all the land within its borders. "Ownership" is a tradeoff: Individuals get to do what they want (for the most part) with the land and also get protection by the state against crimes/disasters (e.g. fire) that occur within that property while the state gets tax revenue. If you 100% truly owned your own land you'd b…
> It's not a "legal philosophy" that's how states work (i.e. it is their land). The state always controls all the land within its borders.
You're confusing ownership with control. Ownership grants but does not guarantee control [1].
Countries nominally control the territory within their borders. In this case, the state is also legally entitled to certain rights pertaining to the water. (Similar to how a homeowner is entitled to certain rights pertaining to their property.)
Neither the U.S. nor Pennsylvania purport to own freeheld private property. That means they aren't entitled to it. And aren't entitled to exercise unlimited control over it. If the answer is well it's only pieces of paper that delineate that divide, then sure, but it's only pieces of paper that delineate a state's border.
> If you 100% truly owned your own land you'd be the monarch of your own state
Again, control. In many monarchies, the monarch controls a legal entity that owns the lands of the state. Or is the legal represenative of a deity who is the legal owner.
[1] https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9780333983898_3
Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
In communities near me, recent expansions of school vouchers has been a game changer. Public schools are struggling and private schools give students a much better education. Public schools were failing well before private school vouchers existed.
Are the private schools forced to take any students? Or can they cherry pick just the best students? Do they reject anyone that needs an IEP? Public schools are legally obligated to provide an education to anyone, no matter how much trouble they cause. If these private schools take public coin, they should be required to follow the same laws.
When an airplane loses compression they instruct you to put your own mask on before you assist with other peoples'.
School should be the same way. Education should not be lowest-common-denominator. My kids should not have less opportunity because other kids have greater challenges.
Operating that way is ethical and humane.
Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unfortunately, you can be denied employment for all sorts of unfair and ridiculous reasons--or for no reason at all. Not too much can be done without changing the law. I remember filling out a job application some time ago where one of the questions was "Have you ever been charged with a crime?" Not "convicted of". It wasn't a mistake, either. There was a footnote that said "You must answer YES to this question even…
That's shameful to do in the US, given our principles of justice. Maybe it was negligent rather than intentional. For example, the company might've just been using some form they got from an outsourced service. Or a lawyer might've made the form for them, but using an obnoxius template (as templates tend to be, AFAICT). So, when people are in this situation, they can try asking the company about it (a recruiter, HR c…
Our principles of justice? You are aware that we use incarceration as a source of slave labor for the government and private companies, right? That even after folks have served their time, we severely restrict their rights for the rest of their lives?
I'm not trying to be an ass, but the US' principles of justice are universally fucked.