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Superstitious Users and the FreeBSD Logo

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Re: Superstitious Users and the FreeBSD Logo

#41

Post by somat »

dagmx wrote: post #14
weinzierl wrote: post #8

The BSD logo was originally drawn by John Lassetter , who would later write and direct Toy Story and a couple of other successful movies. https://www.jacobelder.com/2024/01/17/director-of-toy-story-... Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39030991 EDIT: While the John Lassetter version became most popular he did not draw the original. Thanks to dagmx for pointing that out and the additional backg…

This is sort of incorrect. The BSD daemon was originally drawn by Phil Foglio. As seen here https://www.mckusick.com/beastie/jpg/foglio.jpg Lasseter did a later (more current and iconic) revision. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_Daemon?wprov=sfti1 Also John did more than just direct Toy Story. Lasseter was one of the founders of Pixar , directed several movies, took over the chief creative officer role for both Pix…

Is that the same Phil Foglio that draws girl genius?

https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/

Re: Superstitious Users and the FreeBSD Logo

#42

Post by troad »

veltas wrote: post #26

The FreeBSD Code of Conduct mentions being welcoming to people regardless of religion, but by using imagery that explicitly comes from religious depictions of evil in their logo they're blatantly being unwelcoming to a lot of religious people. Would they react differently (albeit more politely) if someone complained today, now the Code of Conduct exists, especially as 'fixing' this would require a full rebrand? I thi…

The hotel guest was certainly not right to complain.

There are people - often religious - who have a funny definition of "welcoming" which comes perilously close to "either believe as I do, or at least have the decency to pretend that you do in public."

Shucks to that. The guest is demanding that others sacrifice their own integrity to stroke her ego, and placate her obviously fragile beliefs. It is not the job of everyone else in the world to suspend their beliefs to sustain yours. We have a word for such a demand. It's intolerance.

Of course, most religious people are nothing like this (shout out to you, the lovely ones!), and some irreligious people are exactly like this, but intolerance is a trait that does naturally correlate with all-encompassing systems of belief.

Re: Superstitious Users and the FreeBSD Logo

#45

Post by veltas »

troad wrote: post #42
veltas wrote: post #26

The FreeBSD Code of Conduct mentions being welcoming to people regardless of religion, but by using imagery that explicitly comes from religious depictions of evil in their logo they're blatantly being unwelcoming to a lot of religious people. Would they react differently (albeit more politely) if someone complained today, now the Code of Conduct exists, especially as 'fixing' this would require a full rebrand? I thi…

The hotel guest was certainly not right to complain. There are people - often religious - who have a funny definition of "welcoming" which comes perilously close to "either believe as I do, or at least have the decency to pretend that you do in public." Shucks to that. The guest is demanding that others sacrifice their own integrity to stroke her ego, and placate her obviously fragile beliefs. It is not the job of ev…

> It is not the job of everyone else in the world to suspend their beliefs to sustain yours.

If you have a business called "666 Flowers and Cakes" then a lot of Christians won't go there, and some might confront you about it. This isn't demanding or controlling thought, it's just freedom of association.

Nobody's forcing FreeBSD to do anything, but I'm pointing out the logo is at odds with their code of conduct.

The woman in story also seemed to go further and make claims about abuse, which is obviously nonsense and goes too far.

But no, you're not going to be welcoming to religious people by branding with things associated with evil in that religion.

Re: Superstitious Users and the FreeBSD Logo

#47

Post by bell-cot »

At n=1, you could try politely asking a customer how they feel about Duke University using "Blue Devils" as the name of their athletic teams, and adopting that name back when Duke itself was still named Trinity College. Do they avoid businesses with managers who graduated from Duke's business school, or churches with ministers who graduated from Duke's divinity school? Then there are all the American military squadrons and divisions and such which have nicknamed themselves the Red Devils...

More soberly and at scale, one of the boring functions of real business managers is making sure that organization and product names, images, etc. are as inoffensive as possible to as many people as possible.

Back in the '90's, when I first saw the Beastie and Tux mascots, my reaction was "one of these OS's wants to be used on 1% of computers, and the other wants to be used on 99% of computers".

Re: Superstitious Users and the FreeBSD Logo

#49

Post by latexr »

marshray wrote: post #11

I remember my wife describing the funny look she got from our "traditional" next door neighbor as she took the latest edition of the BSD journal out of the mailbox. Never went any further than that. But if you choose to use a literal hell-themed demon as your product's logo, don't be surprised if it limits your user base.

I don’t think there’s a lot of overlap between the people who’d be willing/interested/able in running a BSD and those who think a drawing of their mascot means devil worshiping. If anything, it’s probably an effective (albeit unintentional) filter.

Re: Superstitious Users and the FreeBSD Logo

#50

Post by LeonM »

Instead of trying to change the mascot, why not add a little "what is this?" button next to it, which when clicked explains that it is a mascot, not some devil's worship.

Also, somehow I got the feeling that this hotel wasn't seriously going to lose business over the mascot. A 'long term guest' that is offended by something as innocent as a picture sure sounds to me like someone just trying get out of some obligation.

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