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Bridge to Nowhere

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Re: Bridge to Nowhere

#41

Post by bruce511 »

sqeaky wrote: post #38
bruce511 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with speaking in generalities (about religion, or other) is that you likely have, or present, an incomplete picture, and one which fails to cover the very wide variety of things under that topic. For example your categorization of "cannot tell fantasy from reality" would not be a good description of say a buddhist." Equally binding a view of mental health to religion seems a stretch. Perhaps you have expe…

> Equally binding a view of mental health to religion seems a stretch. Perhaps you have experienced that, but I suspect that connection is not universal. I am saying that in the US the stigma against taking mental health seriously is structural. Consider the amount of voters who think demonic possession is real (tens of millions of people) don't vote to fund mental health services. There are millions of our fellow Am…

Narrowing the context from "religion" to US Christianity certainly changes the scope of your comment.

Certainly the US Christian approach to mental health US not reflective of non US Christians and certainly not other religions.

My experience of US Christians is that most operate in good faith, and are as open to good mental health as any other group. Some proportion, a particularly vocal portion, have weird views about lots of things.

Re: Bridge to Nowhere

#42

Post by brcmthrowaway »

Mistletoe wrote: post #11
brcmthrowaway wrote: post #10

How to avoid tumours growing in brain?

>Most brain tumors form in people without any known risk factors. But some factors may increase your risk for brain tumors, such as: >Radiation exposure. People who have had radiation to the head are at higher risk for brain tumors. Most often this exposure comes from radiation therapy used to treat another type of cancer, like leukemia during childhood. >Certain inherited syndromes. People who are born with certain…

What about smoking cigarettes?

Re: Bridge to Nowhere

#43

Post by lucianbr »

justin_oaks wrote: post #6
gus_massa wrote: post #2

> But more than this I would come to learn that that I'd fallen into a trap of my own making. I'd blame the medical doctor. In similar cases, they use misleading remarks and partial information to guide the patient in the path they prefer.

It seems like the doctor has fallen victim to the politician's fallacy [0], summarized well on Wikipedia as 1. We must do something. 2. This is something. 3. Therefore, we must do this. People seem to feel like there's merit in "trying something, anything" even if by trying something you may actively make the problem worse. We need to accept that we only have limited control. Bad things happen. 0. https://en.wikipedi…

It's funny to me how in tech (and business maybe?) "bias for action" is widely regarded as a good thing. It's the exact thing you are describing, but phrased differently and in a different context, everyone thinks it's great.

Re: Bridge to Nowhere

#44

Post by lucianbr »

scotty79 wrote: post #15

That's a bit harsh on the doctors. If you or your loved one have a solid mass in the brain an evening of googling can tell you that it's most likely the end of the road rather sooner than later. There's very little anyone can do to help you feel better or retain illusion of agency over your life When you are finding this out it's usually because you already have significant symptoms that progress because growing mass…

Your conclusion does not seem to follow from the premises.

> There's very little anyone can do

Hence the validity of the "do nothing" option.

> If you want to do anything else

But you may want to do nothing. There are valid reasons for it.

> So a surgery is basically a no brainer

Non sequitur.

Your context suggests that you think doing something is a good idea because you know of a case where it worked out. This is availability bias.

> Statistics is just that. Statistics.

What is this even supposed to mean? Statistics is a useful tool. You're denying it with no argument. "I don't like statistics."

Re: Bridge to Nowhere

#45

Post by lucianbr »

bruce511 wrote: post #36
alexashka wrote: post #5

It may be a bridge to nowhere for the patient but it is a profit opportunity for hospital owners. You're just another input in their number go up paperclip maximizer - where your road leads beyond their number go up is not a concern for them.

In one sense your comment is accurate - hospitals exist to "do something". And yes, in the US the hospital us part of a for-profit health system. But your comment is not limited to hospitals. It's true for every business. If I sell an ice-cream my interest ends after you pay for it. Equally I'm not going to withhold ice-cream from overweight people - my job is to sell ice-cream. If the hospital was a non-profit, and…

> partly because that encompasses all of us, and partly because hospitals and doctors are primed for action, not inaction.

This does not in any way justify pushing a patient into action when action may not be the best course for them.

Re: Bridge to Nowhere

#46

Post by sqeaky »

bruce511 wrote: post #41
sqeaky wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Equally binding a view of mental health to religion seems a stretch. Perhaps you have experienced that, but I suspect that connection is not universal. I am saying that in the US the stigma against taking mental health seriously is structural. Consider the amount of voters who think demonic possession is real (tens of millions of people) don't vote to fund mental health services. There are millions of our fellow Am…

Narrowing the context from "religion" to US Christianity certainly changes the scope of your comment. Certainly the US Christian approach to mental health US not reflective of non US Christians and certainly not other religions. My experience of US Christians is that most operate in good faith, and are as open to good mental health as any other group. Some proportion, a particularly vocal portion, have weird views ab…

> My experience of US Christians is that most operate in good faith, and are as open to good mental health as any other group. Some proportion, a particularly vocal portion, have weird views about lots of things.

People who think demonic possession is real (again, I am asserting tens of millsions of americans and probablly close to a billion worldwide) are operating in good faith. They actually think that stuff is real and think that locking up or torturing mentally ill people is a good solution. They honestly that actually think torturing people to remove demons is good because they believe in things like souls and think these have a role to play in medicine.

> Narrowing the context from "religion" to US Christianity certainly changes the scope of your comment.

Yes, it does, but this US centric very capitalistic place to discuss tech stuff. So I am just trying to exclude fantasy because with how much we know it can't help more than it hurts.

Re: Bridge to Nowhere

#47

Post by nickff »

sqeaky wrote: post #46
bruce511 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Narrowing the context from "religion" to US Christianity certainly changes the scope of your comment. Certainly the US Christian approach to mental health US not reflective of non US Christians and certainly not other religions. My experience of US Christians is that most operate in good faith, and are as open to good mental health as any other group. Some proportion, a particularly vocal portion, have weird views ab…

> My experience of US Christians is that most operate in good faith, and are as open to good mental health as any other group. Some proportion, a particularly vocal portion, have weird views about lots of things. People who think demonic possession is real (again, I am asserting tens of millsions of americans and probablly close to a billion worldwide) are operating in good faith. They actually think that stuff is re…

Was your original comment talking about ‘religious people’, or ‘American Christians who believe in demonic possession’? You seem to be shifting the subject to a favored target, rather than discussing the comment you originally replied to.

Re: Bridge to Nowhere

#48

Post by trimethylpurine »

Mistletoe wrote: post #11
brcmthrowaway wrote: post #10

How to avoid tumours growing in brain?

>Most brain tumors form in people without any known risk factors. But some factors may increase your risk for brain tumors, such as: >Radiation exposure. People who have had radiation to the head are at higher risk for brain tumors. Most often this exposure comes from radiation therapy used to treat another type of cancer, like leukemia during childhood. >Certain inherited syndromes. People who are born with certain…

Some of this may deserve more research before warranting belief.

>Our ability to detect an exercise-brain cancer relationship may relate to the use of cohorts specifically designed to detect exercise-health associations

Re: Bridge to Nowhere

#49

Post by roca »

sqeaky wrote: post #46
bruce511 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Narrowing the context from "religion" to US Christianity certainly changes the scope of your comment. Certainly the US Christian approach to mental health US not reflective of non US Christians and certainly not other religions. My experience of US Christians is that most operate in good faith, and are as open to good mental health as any other group. Some proportion, a particularly vocal portion, have weird views ab…

> My experience of US Christians is that most operate in good faith, and are as open to good mental health as any other group. Some proportion, a particularly vocal portion, have weird views about lots of things. People who think demonic possession is real (again, I am asserting tens of millsions of americans and probablly close to a billion worldwide) are operating in good faith. They actually think that stuff is re…

I'm a Christian, I lived in the USA for ten years, and AFAIK I never met a single Christian who would deny that mental illness is real or who would say that locking up or torturing mentally ill people is a good thing. And I expect most of them believe that demonic possession can also happen. These are not mutually exclusive beliefs.

Re: Bridge to Nowhere

#50

Post by hitekker »

sqeaky wrote: post #33
arp242 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Previous poster was pretty clear their advice has nothing to do with religion as such: "Having someone - doesn’t have to be religious to be clear - who has been in those rooms can be helpful." Starting a flame about religion is very not appropriate. Please don't do that.

And I started with "As you say we do need better advocacy and more transparency in difficult situations" and I agree with that. I just want religion left out of such topics, because it makes everything worse.

You have the freedom to hate religious people, but like the GP says, you may want to vent somewhere else.
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