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Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]

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Re: Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]

#41

Post by FMecha »

3np wrote: post #3

Better source: Comment last week on /r/SBCGaming: https://safereddit.com/r/SBCGaming/comments/1frjcaa/hey_ever... --- It appears that my suspicions are true, and that I am being specifically targeted by Nintendo. My recent Wii U video was taken down and I received a second copyright strike, even though this showcase video was no different than all of the tech demos and reviews I have made on this channel previously.…

>so the company itself has no means of earning revenue from Wii U sales

Nintendo's de facto method to do this is to simply re-release them on Switch - though this only matters for first-party titles.

Re: Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]

#42

Post by izacus »

benoau wrote: post #21

These days you can load up almost the entire history of gaming on a dozen different PC handhelds, choose from a thriving Android ecosystem of less-powerful but cheaper handhelds, and run emulators on iPhones and Android phones. Their walled garden is on the brink of ruin, unencumbered hardware and software have surpassed what they offer. I don't think it's existential yet but if they don't have a digital buffet ready…

And the IP laws as they stand right now can kill off all of that software, especially with aggressive addition of DRM and private stores which police existence of these kind of perservation efforts.

Remember that Apple had to be forced to even think about allowing emulators on their platforms by the EU and even then they aggressively block Americans from being able to access them.

Re: Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]

#43

Post by fourfour3 »

randmeerkat wrote: post #14
musicale wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think they should have the right to prevent hackers to emulate it and share their findings They do not. Emulation is legal. However it is worth considering that: 0) NES Classic was sold as recently as 2018 1) Nintendo currently rent out NES games as part of Switch online 2) Copyright law ("lifetime" + 70 years) is on Nintendo's side for games themselves 3) Fair use can be a defense against infringement in s…

> Nintendo currently rent out NES games as part of Switch online If Nintendo really cared about this they should create their own version of Spotify for legacy video games and charge a monthly subscription fee for the entire library that’s cross platform and mobile friendly. The strength of Nintendo really is their games, not the hardware. I don’t understand why Nintendo is so attached to their hardware in 2024, espe…

I think part of the reason Nintendo (and it's not just Nintendo) is very reserved with their historical library is that they do not want to satisfy the demand for games that way while they're still making new ones.

If you can legally play Pokemon GBA or DS games under emulation for a subscription, would that have an effect on demand for buying new Pokemon games, especially for the adult market that has nostalgia for the earlier titles? I honestly think it would, especially given that there seems to be a fairly reasonable consensus online that the franchise peaked in the past for a lot of players - some people say the GBA titles, some say the DS ones, etc. I know personally that I play the old DS, GBA and GameCube titles for a lot of Nintendo franchises more than their current Switch releases.

And with regard to making it cross-platform & available on mobile, Nintendo has always controlled their platforms aggressively. They've never released games on other console platforms other than their own, and their mobile push has been deliberately very conservative (even moreso than other companies with retro libraries like Square Enix, Sega, etc). Plus especially with their handheld lineup, the DS and the 3DS are tricky to do emulated releases for - with the combination of built in touch screens, dual displays, etc.

But I also think that mobile gaming is a poor fit for most of Nintendo's library - unless you're expecting players to buy physical controls for their phones, I can't imagine playing eg Super Mario World is going to be very fun with touch screen button overlays.

Selling their own hardware still works for Nintendo, it's still profitable and it gives them control they'd cede if they released elsewhere. They'd have to pay platform fees, go through someone else's certification processes, etc. They have some of the most recognisable IP in gaming (and with Pokemon etc, one of the most recognisable bits of IP in the world), so they have the market power to pull people to buy their hardware too.

Re: Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]

#44

Post by FMecha »

vachina wrote: post #19
treflop wrote: post #9

Standard Nintendo behavior.

I think they’re trying to prevent people from developing hardware alternatives to Nintendo Switch, next logical step after stable emulators. Which basically proves Nintendo has little to no moat apart from laws preventing their executables from being run elsewhere.

>I think they’re trying to prevent people from developing hardware alternatives to Nintendo Switch, next logical step after stable emulators.

They waged war against Famiclones in the past - see NTDEC (which had trademarks involved, since NTDEC stands for "Nintendo Electronic Company") and Power Player Super Joy III cases. However, they did lose the PocketFami case (in Japan, mind you) due to patents expiring and the fact it does not come with built-in games.

Re: Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]

#45

Post by Rinzler89 »

cies wrote: post #32
JeremyMorgan wrote: post #4

I got a C&D from them 20+ years ago for hosting a ROM site. That's fair enough. I complied. But this seems ridiculous. What if they're plugging an 8-BIT NES to an adapter and into a capture card? The whole thing seems silly as I don't see it's costing them money. But it's their product they can do what they want.

> But it's their product they can do what they want. It's just because of IP-law that they get to do this. If there were no IP-laws, it would be: "I bought their product, now it's mine, and I get tot do what I want." This is just overstretching of IP-laws if you ask me. This madness has to stop.

>This is just overstretching of IP-laws if you ask me. This madness has to stop.

IP laws aren't a natural concept that exists by itself in nature, they're a construct manufactured and enforced by the governments. So if governments made them, then governments can easily rewrite them if they wish so.

But for that there needs public support and presure form voters to the politicians, but IP laws aren't something the average person cares or even ever thinks about, not when their core worries are inflation, CoL, housing, healthcare, education, etc, so the issue of IP laws is played exclusively on the battlefield of corporations and who has the most money for lobbying.

And corporations don't want laxer IP laws since that gives smaller players more leverage, versus the current status quo the favors the large plyers with the biggest litigation warchests to create large moats for them.

Re: Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]

#46

Post by hyperman1 »

JeremyMorgan wrote: post #4

I got a C&D from them 20+ years ago for hosting a ROM site. That's fair enough. I complied. But this seems ridiculous. What if they're plugging an 8-BIT NES to an adapter and into a capture card? The whole thing seems silly as I don't see it's costing them money. But it's their product they can do what they want.

For a whole lot of software companies, the main competitor is the old version of the software.

Same for Nintendo: Newer games might be nicer to look at, but old games are just as much fun. So working older copies of their games do cost them money, and they'd rather see them disappear.

Re: Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]

#47

Post by oniony »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #39
musicale wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t understand why Nintendo is so attached to their hardware in 2024, Yes, you do not. Nintendo makes a lot of money selling hardware. Switch is the third most successful game console of all time, behind the PS2 and Nintendo's own DS. Switch was always profitable vs. component and manufacturing cost, and this has largely gotten better over time with the exception of covid-related supply chain disruptions. Ninte…

> Nintendo makes a lot of money selling hardware They do, but the majority of their library is not available on current hardware. I think not understanding this as a business decision is a valid opinion.

By restricting access to their classic portfolio, it inflates the value of it so they can periodically release it on new platforms in a time limited fashion.

Disney did the same thing with their classic movies during the VHS/DVD era. If they were all available all the time then nobody would even think to watch them. But by creating scarcity and then periodically releasing them in a time limited special edition they can eke out more money.

So Nintendo do not want everyone to be blasse about their back catalogue. They want the nostalgia to build and then release some of these titles every so often so you buy them over and over again.

Re: Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]

#48

Post by surgical_fire »

vachina wrote: post #19
treflop wrote: post #9

Standard Nintendo behavior.

I think they’re trying to prevent people from developing hardware alternatives to Nintendo Switch, next logical step after stable emulators. Which basically proves Nintendo has little to no moat apart from laws preventing their executables from being run elsewhere.

> Which basically proves Nintendo has little to no moat apart from laws preventing their executables from being run elsewhere.

"They have little to no moat apart from copyright law protecting their IPs"

There, I rephrased it for you. It is actually one hell of a moat.

Re: Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]

#49

Post by surgical_fire »

the_gorilla wrote: post #6
JeremyMorgan wrote: post #4

I got a C&D from them 20+ years ago for hosting a ROM site. That's fair enough. I complied. But this seems ridiculous. What if they're plugging an 8-BIT NES to an adapter and into a capture card? The whole thing seems silly as I don't see it's costing them money. But it's their product they can do what they want.

> But it's their product they can do what they want. To the extent that we let them. There's no natural rights going on here, so theoretically (if you believe in democracy) we still get to decide how much power foreign companies have.

> Which basically proves Nintendo has little to no moat apart from laws preventing their executables from being run elsewhere.

That would cause foreign countries to also ignore copyright held by US companies. Copyright laws only work as well as they do because all countries that matter sort of play by the same rules.

Re: Nintendo isn't just attacking emulators [video]

#50

Post by Woeps »

FMecha wrote: post #40
musicale wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think they should have the right to prevent hackers to emulate it and share their findings They do not. Emulation is legal. However it is worth considering that: 0) NES Classic was sold as recently as 2018 1) Nintendo currently rent out NES games as part of Switch online 2) Copyright law ("lifetime" + 70 years) is on Nintendo's side for games themselves 3) Fair use can be a defense against infringement in s…

> Emulation is legal. For now. This is just baby steps to Nintendo weaseling themselves into Supreme Court to get Sony v. Connectix overturned. MGM v. Grokster attempted to overturn Sony v. Universal (VCR lawsuit), but while the movie studios did win, it was not an overturn of the VCR lawsuit.

Wonder what the EU laws are on this, as for example also things as game mechanics/features are not something you can register in the EU. So I assume they can't really block Emulation there.

And in that case, would it make a difference where the development is done, and if the website is "geofenced"?

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