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Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

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Re: Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

#41

Post by bongodongobob »

abeppu wrote: post #37

> “The overall diagnostic is that the patient, Planet Earth, is in critical condition,” says Johan Rockström The planet as a patient is a problematic metaphor. What does this mean? A human patient in critical condition is at risk of dying. But the planet is not going to "die", though many species will. We need better ways of talking clearly (not with hyperbole) about the current situation and the stakes. Even with se…

Why does this argument always come up? We all know the planet won't die. Humans might though. That's why we're concerned. This is always presented as some "ackshully" very smart argument. Yeah, it's a big fuckin rock, of course it won't die. That's not the concern.

Re: Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

#42

Post by FrustratedMonky »

RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #3

The Planetary Boundaries framework is so bad, I don’t understand why it’s so popular. Most of the "boundaries" are directly correlated. Most of them are fairly arbitrary. It’s such an awful tool to discuss the actual very serious issue it underlines. I wish it would just disappear. Just to be clear, there is nothing magical about most of these boundaries. The situation is not in any way suddenly worse today than yest…

"correlated" isn't an evil term, it doesn't mean there can't be useful observations in different domains.

To nit pick, since "correlation isn't causation" is often an internet meme to discredit any science.

Re: Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

#43

Post by adamredwoods »

_rrnv wrote: post #22

Planet Earth will be fine. It survived much worse than some little human emissions. The meteor and winter that followed that killed off the dinosaurs was much worse than some elevated CO2. Whether humanity survives this is another question. My bet is we will, since we are like roaches. But many will die for the sins of the few. Interestingly, these few who will survive are probably the ones who created this mess and…

I think you may need to review starvation events that humans and animals have had in history.

>> I hope not all here are brainwashed and understand what I'm saying.

So if someone doesn't agree with you, they are brainwashed?

Re: Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

#44

Post by glitchc »

withinboredom wrote: post #5

I’ve kind of accepted we are screwed. Whether I am alive when shit hits the fan or not is another question. But seeing that people are trying to build satellite mirrors to put MORE solar energy into the planet without even thinking about it for more than a few minutes, I would say we are more screwed than we realize. The first law of stupidity applies.

Nah, this is just doom and gloom based on persistent and pervasive messaging. On large geological timescales, our temperatures are pretty close to the mean. Even given the last 500 million years, we're nowhere near the peak [1].

Will habitable zones change? Yes. Will migrations occur? Yes. Will there be unrest leading to disease, famine and death? Yes, for sure. And we could get all those things from war, a major natural disaster or an extraterrestrial event. Just take war for example. War promises to bring all of those changes too, that hasn't stopped human beings from fighting. If anything, destroying our economies to deal with the climate threat will inevitably lead to war, and then the resulting outcome will be the same: Death, famine, unrest, change/loss of habitable zones. What would we have gained?

[1] https://www.climate.gov/media/11332

Re: Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

#45

Post by cabirum »

gruntledfangler wrote: post #28

“The health check will also serve as a “mission-control center” for decision-making, per the statement, by using satellite data, A.I. and multiple scientific disciplines—as well as the wisdom of Indigenous peoples, which is something the researchers hope to incorporate more of in following editions” Just in case you were considering taking this seriously…

They are just looking for funding that's all.

Re: Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

#46

Post by ghastmaster »

> Earth’s oceans absorb carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, providing a valuable carbon sink as humans burn fossil fuels. But this process also makes the oceans more acidic, which can disturb the formation of shells and coral skeletons and affect fish life cycles, per the report.

Atmospheric CO2 levels are at historic lows.[1]

Bivalves have shells and evolved during the Cambrian Explosion. The Cambrian explosion took place around 540 to 520 million years ago (Mya)[2].

During the early history of bivalves atmospheric CO2 levels were around 4,000-5,000ppm. Current levels are around 400ppm.

References:

1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_Earth's_atmo...

2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bivalvia

Re: Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

#47

Post by croes »

RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #3

The Planetary Boundaries framework is so bad, I don’t understand why it’s so popular. Most of the "boundaries" are directly correlated. Most of them are fairly arbitrary. It’s such an awful tool to discuss the actual very serious issue it underlines. I wish it would just disappear. Just to be clear, there is nothing magical about most of these boundaries. The situation is not in any way suddenly worse today than yest…

We could define similar boundaries for humans: Wealth, education, health etc.

They are also directly correlated but still a indicator of a humans condition.

Re: Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

#49

Post by [deleted] »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #20
withinboredom wrote: post #5

I’ve kind of accepted we are screwed. Whether I am alive when shit hits the fan or not is another question. But seeing that people are trying to build satellite mirrors to put MORE solar energy into the planet without even thinking about it for more than a few minutes, I would say we are more screwed than we realize. The first law of stupidity applies.

The modern era of humans roughly coincides with Earth's coldest period over the last 485M years: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adk3705 Even some of the worst predictions for where temperatures are headed before we get close to Net Zero emissions don't put us above historical averages. To be clear, if the worst predictions come to light, that will be bad for people. But the planet will be fine. I doubt s…

[deleted]

Re: Earth Is on the Brink of Breaching a 7th of Nine 'Planetary Boundaries'

#50

Post by debugnik »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #12
withinboredom wrote: post #5

I’ve kind of accepted we are screwed. Whether I am alive when shit hits the fan or not is another question. But seeing that people are trying to build satellite mirrors to put MORE solar energy into the planet without even thinking about it for more than a few minutes, I would say we are more screwed than we realize. The first law of stupidity applies.

Where is the assumption coming from that a “shit hits the fan” event will happen? What if it is just a slow degradation in myriad aspects of quality of life only felt over the course of decades?

Because complex systems in general are known to enter critical transitions when pushed hard enough, and we do keep pushing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_transition

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